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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Really, we have to look at what "snapped" inside the American psyche. |
I honestly just think it's the Prozac-type drugs. Everyone and their dog is on it these days. I have several family members who went on it after they were prescribed it on routine visits to their doctors (even though they weren't really mentally ill at all imo, just mildly "depressed"), and they literally turned into semi-zombies... Like emotions just went out the window and when I talked to them it would feel like they were just not all there anymore (saddens me to say so, but I'm being honest)...
Anyway, maybe an oversimplification, or anecdotal on my part, but it really is the elephant in the room... I mean, like half (or more) of the population is on this stuff. These aren't even mild drugs - they're hard-core mind-altering substances. Even if taken in mild doses, it's pretty serious. Supposedly these drugs are meant to treat people who have psychotic tendencies, but I can't help but wonder if these drugs aren't actually the cause in some cases. Almost every one of the shooters were on these types of meds, and we know they can have side-effects that drastically increase suicidal tendencies and can cause psychotic breaks. |
It's not half of the population, it's 11%.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/10/20/141544135/look-around-1-in-10-americans-take-antidepressants
But that being said, it's still an incredibly large number. Going off on this tangent, I don't know anybody who is on anti-depressants, or am not aware of it at least, but I do think that the rise of prescription drugs of this nature can be a problem. I have lots of experience with people who were prescribed/ are prescribed things like Adderal and Ritilan when they were children and lots of them have developed problems with other drugs. I think these things are a bigger gateway drug than weed ever was, and I've seen much more damage come from prescription drugs than conventional ones. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, I was going of the CDC's website, which states:
Percent of persons using at least one prescription drug in the past month: 47.9%
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/drugs.htm
But as you pointed out, that's not all mind-altering drugs, so thanks for the correction. And as you said, 11% is still a very large number (which has gone up hundreds of percent over the past decade or two). |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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Spartacist
Joined: 18 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
Alright, I was going of the CDC's website, which states:
Percent of persons using at least one prescription drug in the past month: 47.9%
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/drugs.htm
But as you pointed out, that's not all mind-altering drugs, so thanks for the correction. And as you said, 11% is still a very large number (which has gone up hundreds of percent over the past decade or two). |
Is there any real cause and effect relationship between the increase in the number of people taking medication for mental illness, and increase in the number of mass shootings, or homicides by firearm more generally? The greater number of firearm homicides are surely not committed by those with mentall illness - according to this article, only 4% of violent crime is committed by those with mental illness. http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=96905
Also, according to one expert, most mass murderers are not psychotic.
"According to Dr. Michael Stone, professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia and an expert on mass murderers, �Most of these killers are young men who are not floridly psychotic. They tend to be paranoid loners who hold a grudge and are full of rage.�
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/health/a-misguided-focus-on-mental-illness-in-gun-control-debate.html?src=me&ref=general&gwh=3981367433DC61361B202F96E5D7D508
Countdown to visitorq criticising my use of 'lamestream' media sources like the New York Times and general use of ad hominems in 5, 4, 3 ... |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Spartacist wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
Alright, I was going of the CDC's website, which states:
Percent of persons using at least one prescription drug in the past month: 47.9%
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/drugs.htm
But as you pointed out, that's not all mind-altering drugs, so thanks for the correction. And as you said, 11% is still a very large number (which has gone up hundreds of percent over the past decade or two). |
Is there any real cause and effect relationship between the increase in the number of people taking medication for mental illness, and increase in the number of mass shootings, or homicides by firearm more generally? The greater number of firearm homicides are surely not committed by those with mentall illness - according to this article, only 4% of violent crime is committed by those with mental illness. http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=96905 |
Quite irrelevant, since we're talking about "violent crimes" in general, just indiscriminate mass killings. Most violent crimes are committed by gangsters and other criminals, who are not madmen. These are not people going into schools to massacre children for no reason.
Just because this one guy says so doesn't make it true. Someone who walks into a school and cold-bloodedly shoots 20+ children isn't psychotic?? He's just having 'anger management' issues?  Who does this guy think he's fooling?
| Quote: |
| Countdown to visitorq criticising my use of 'lamestream' media sources like the New York Times and general use of ad hominems in 5, 4, 3 ... |
Quit projecting. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Really, we have to look at what "snapped" inside the American psyche. |
I honestly just think it's the Prozac-type drugs. Everyone and their dog is on it these days. I have several family members who went on it after they were prescribed it on routine visits to their doctors (even though they weren't really mentally ill at all imo, just mildly "depressed"), and they literally turned into semi-zombies... Like emotions just went out the window and when I talked to them it would feel like they were just not all there anymore (saddens me to say so, but I'm being honest)...
Anyway, maybe an oversimplification, or anecdotal on my part, but it really is the elephant in the room... I mean, like half (or more) of the population is on this stuff. These aren't even mild drugs - they're hard-core mind-altering substances. Even if taken in mild doses, it's pretty serious. Supposedly these drugs are meant to treat people who have psychotic tendencies, but I can't help but wonder if these drugs aren't actually the cause in some cases. Almost every one of the shooters were on these types of meds, and we know they can have side-effects that drastically increase suicidal tendencies and can cause psychotic breaks. |
| Quote: |
| Eleven percent of Americans aged 12 years and over take antidepressant medication. |
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db76.htm |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not denying that it's crazy high, I'm just saying, it's not the more than 50 percent that you claimed. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| I'm not denying that it's crazy high, I'm just saying, it's not the more than 50 percent that you claimed. |
I already admitted it wasn't 50% (go back and read before you post more). Sheesh. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Oh please. One random dude on the internet? He had like 9000 hits, thanks mostly in part to people like yourself spreading it around. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| I'm not denying that it's crazy high, I'm just saying, it's not the more than 50 percent that you claimed. |
I already admitted it wasn't 50% (go back and read before you post more). Sheesh. |
I did, I was just explaining why I'd posted it. Sheesh you, don't be so defensive. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Unposter wrote: |
| My question is why only on the state level? You said you didn't want to force your opinions on others but you are certainly doing that at the state level in the same way you would be doing it at the national level. Either way, unless their is consensus, you have to force your opinion on someone. |
Ostensibly, people can move between states to avoid laws of which they do not approve far more easily than they could move to, say, another country. State-level laws are probably technically less coercive than federal-level laws in that respect. |
Partially this. But more because laws at the State level satisfy more people more of the time. For example, if everyone on the East and West coasts supported X, but the central U.S. opposed it, we'd have a majority in favor... but if the same law were at the state level, everyone would be satisfied since the central U.S. simply wouldn't pass the law. In reality, these ratios may be more like 60% satisfaction with a national law and 80% satisfaction with a State law... plus you have the ability to move to another State if you really hated it.
Then there's the benefit of the States as "laboratories of Democracy" where one State can try legalizing marijuana or instituting public healthcare and other States get to see how well it works and improve upon it.
And to preempt anyone who loves slippery slope fallacies, most U.S. States are the size of countries and all already have established laws and governments... my argument doesn't imply that we need different laws for every neighborhood. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| I'm not denying that it's crazy high, I'm just saying, it's not the more than 50 percent that you claimed. |
I already admitted it wasn't 50% (go back and read before you post more). Sheesh. |
I did, I was just explaining why I'd posted it. Sheesh you, don't be so defensive. |
But why did you post it? The man already conceeded he was wrong after someone else posted the exact same stat as you did. Seems a little pointless to the same fact again. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
Oh please. One random dude on the internet? He had like 9000 hits, thanks mostly in part to people like yourself spreading it around. |
Just type in connecticut shooting conspiracy. Plenty of nutjobs claiming there was a second shooter. |
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