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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Stay-at-home-mom culture changing in Korea |
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| baedaebok wrote: |
With the the election of the new president, i wonder if the stay-at-home-mom culture will change (or, INHO, erode). The US is reaping the results of years of working moms & latch-key children. Was the Sandy Hook killer a latch-key kid who lashed out at his mom and where she worked? Did she run out of love & energy to show to her son b/c it was spent on her students?
Are working moms healthy for society? As more moms of young kids enter the workforce, will violence and hopelessness increase? |
Well, that has already been changing for some years. More and more women don't want to get married and many who do want to get married there are many who want to work.
As far as the U.S. and gun violence, it is said there has been an over all decrease in school shootings of that type for some years. And this type of violence took in the 1980s in earnest. Do we have more stay at home moms in the US in 2012 versus the 1980s? I doubt it. As far as the mother of the killer, she was not a teacher. She sometimes volunteered at the school. She was a stay at home mom who had recently got a divorce and was receiving 200,000 dollars from her businessman ex-husband.
She had also taken her son to the gun range and taught him to use a gun, but when she found that he was a loose cannon, she appeared to have wanted to get him institutionalized or he thought so and decided to use his training to end his life, and the lives of his mother and many people at that unfortunate school. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Stay-at-home-mom culture changing in Korea |
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| baedaebok wrote: |
With the the election of the new president, i wonder if the stay-at-home-mom culture will change (or, INHO, erode). The US is reaping the results of years of working moms & latch-key children. Was the Sandy Hook killer a latch-key kid who lashed out at his mom and where she worked? Did she run out of love & energy to show to her son b/c it was spent on her students?
Are working moms healthy for society? As more moms of young kids enter the workforce, will violence and hopelessness increase? |
Well, that has already been changing for some years. More and more women don't want to get married and many who do want to get married there are many who want to work.
As far as the U.S. and gun violence, it is said there has been an over all decrease in school shootings of that type for some years. And this type of violence took in the 1980s in earnest. Do we have more stay at home moms in the US in 2012 versus the 1980s? I doubt it. As far as the mother of the killer, she was not a teacher. She sometimes volunteered at the school. She was a stay at home mom who had recently got a divorce and was receiving 200,000 dollars from her businessman ex-husband.
She had also taken her son to the gun range and taught him to use a gun, but when she found that he was a loose cannon, she appeared to have wanted to get him institutionalized or he thought so and decided to use his training to end his life, and the lives of his mother and many people at that unfortunate school. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| No_hite_pls wrote: |
| Newbie wrote: |
Great.
Now we can all expect childhood obesity to rise (quicker than it already is), youth crime to go up, and the Korean education system to tank, just like the US has been doing for the last 30 years.
*Edit: I don't mean to imply it has to be the women who should be staying home. But someone should! |
You are completely wrong about two of your points. Crime in states is the lowest it has been since 1964 and literacy rate is the highest it has ever been.
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In 2009 America's crime rate was roughly the same as in 1968, with the homicide rate being at its lowest level since 1964. Overall, the national crime rate was 3466 crimes per 100,000 residents, down from 3680 crimes per 100,000 residents forty years earlier in 1969 (-9.4%)
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Why do people always glorify the past. The past wasn't that good.
http://io9.com/5933173/three-strange-theories-about-why-americas-crime-rate-is-so-low |
Boomers are getting older. Too old to commit crimes and there is also a much larger prison population. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
We have a 14 month old. We plan to send him to kindergarten in a few months. But my wife will probably still not work - because all the jobs pay so little.
Most of the family friends we have send their kids to kinder, but the mothers don't work.
Kinder is cheap. 400K. Free if you are poor, you get govt. support. But still most jobs for women pay poorly.
As of 2005 (I can't find a more recent #) 70% of women workers were "irregular" workers.
http://www.tni.org/archives/asem-seoul_008park |
Is your wife Korean? If so, you need to check with your local gu or dong office. The government subsidizes kindergarten for kids of multicultural families by an extra 50% or so. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
We have a 14 month old. We plan to send him to kindergarten in a few months. But my wife will probably still not work - because all the jobs pay so little.
Most of the family friends we have send their kids to kinder, but the mothers don't work.
Kinder is cheap. 400K. Free if you are poor, you get govt. support. But still most jobs for women pay poorly.
As of 2005 (I can't find a more recent #) 70% of women workers were "irregular" workers.
http://www.tni.org/archives/asem-seoul_008park |
Is your wife Korean? If so, you need to check with your local gu or dong office. The government subsidizes kindergarten for kids of multicultural families by an extra 50% or so. |
Yeah, that's great... we're a multicultural family and we can't find a school that's not totally packed within close proximity to our home. In fact, one has a 30 person waiting list, and the other 60!
Korea wants more kids, and is oh-so-concerned about its low birthrate... then they don't provide enough facilities for people to send their kids to.
Nice. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
We have a 14 month old. We plan to send him to kindergarten in a few months. But my wife will probably still not work - because all the jobs pay so little.
Most of the family friends we have send their kids to kinder, but the mothers don't work.
Kinder is cheap. 400K. Free if you are poor, you get govt. support. But still most jobs for women pay poorly.
As of 2005 (I can't find a more recent #) 70% of women workers were "irregular" workers.
http://www.tni.org/archives/asem-seoul_008park |
A slightly more recent one (2007) states that 77% of Korean women work over 40 hours a week in the workforce.
http://www.wikigender.org/index.php/Gender_Equality_in_South_Korea
Yes it's from wiki but the sources appear fairly reputable.
| Quote: |
Sources
CEDAW, Consideration of reports submitted by States parties under article 18 of the Convention. Third report. Korea (2007)
OECD, Babies and Bosses. Policies towards reconciling work and family life. Korea (2007) http://www.oecd.org/LongAbstract
/0,3425,en_33873108_33873555_39696377_1_1_1_1,00.html)
UNDP, Millennium Development Goals Report: Korea (2007) |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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The categorization of women as "irregular" workers doesn't refer to their hours per week, but more their non-permanent status. They are working "part time" full time jobs without benefits (their employer is not paying their share of health care or pension), they don't have permanent rights.
I remember, maybe 5 years ago, the female "stewardesses" on KTX sued the railway corporation because they were all working on contracts without benefits. They were never going to be given full time permanent jobs. This is the sort of thing I'm meaning. |
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jdog2050
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Stay-at-home-mom culture changing in Korea |
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| baedaebok wrote: |
With the the election of the new president, i wonder if the stay-at-home-mom culture will change (or, INHO, erode). The US is reaping the results of years of working moms & latch-key children. Was the Sandy Hook killer a latch-key kid who lashed out at his mom and where she worked? Did she run out of love & energy to show to her son b/c it was spent on her students?
Are working moms healthy for society? As more moms of young kids enter the workforce, will violence and hopelessness increase? |
...this is a dumb post. This post is dumb. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
We have a 14 month old. We plan to send him to kindergarten in a few months. But my wife will probably still not work - because all the jobs pay so little.
Most of the family friends we have send their kids to kinder, but the mothers don't work.
Kinder is cheap. 400K. Free if you are poor, you get govt. support. But still most jobs for women pay poorly.
As of 2005 (I can't find a more recent #) 70% of women workers were "irregular" workers.
http://www.tni.org/archives/asem-seoul_008park |
Is your wife Korean? If so, you need to check with your local gu or dong office. The government subsidizes kindergarten for kids of multicultural families by an extra 50% or so. |
Yeah, that's great... we're a multicultural family and we can't find a school that's not totally packed within close proximity to our home. In fact, one has a 30 person waiting list, and the other 60!
Korea wants more kids, and is oh-so-concerned about its low birthrate... then they don't provide enough facilities for people to send their kids to.
Nice. |
Too bad hope it works out for you guys. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| There's no evidence the new president is a feminist or will push women's issues. She didn't campaign on women's issues and a quick perusal of her transition team didn't find any women on it. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
We have a 14 month old. We plan to send him to kindergarten in a few months. But my wife will probably still not work - because all the jobs pay so little.
Most of the family friends we have send their kids to kinder, but the mothers don't work.
Kinder is cheap. 400K. Free if you are poor, you get govt. support. But still most jobs for women pay poorly.
As of 2005 (I can't find a more recent #) 70% of women workers were "irregular" workers.
http://www.tni.org/archives/asem-seoul_008park |
A slightly more recent one (2007) states that 77% of Korean women work over 40 hours a week in the workforce.
http://www.wikigender.org/index.php/Gender_Equality_in_South_Korea
Yes it's from wiki but the sources appear fairly reputable.
| Quote: |
Sources
CEDAW, Consideration of reports submitted by States parties under article 18 of the Convention. Third report. Korea (2007)
OECD, Babies and Bosses. Policies towards reconciling work and family life. Korea (2007) http://www.oecd.org/LongAbstract
/0,3425,en_33873108_33873555_39696377_1_1_1_1,00.html)
UNDP, Millennium Development Goals Report: Korea (2007) |
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Just to clarify, that's 77% of Korean women who work, not 77% of Korean women. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
We have a 14 month old. We plan to send him to kindergarten in a few months. But my wife will probably still not work - because all the jobs pay so little.
Most of the family friends we have send their kids to kinder, but the mothers don't work.
Kinder is cheap. 400K. Free if you are poor, you get govt. support. But still most jobs for women pay poorly.
As of 2005 (I can't find a more recent #) 70% of women workers were "irregular" workers.
http://www.tni.org/archives/asem-seoul_008park |
A slightly more recent one (2007) states that 77% of Korean women work over 40 hours a week in the workforce.
http://www.wikigender.org/index.php/Gender_Equality_in_South_Korea
Yes it's from wiki but the sources appear fairly reputable.
| Quote: |
Sources
CEDAW, Consideration of reports submitted by States parties under article 18 of the Convention. Third report. Korea (2007)
OECD, Babies and Bosses. Policies towards reconciling work and family life. Korea (2007) http://www.oecd.org/LongAbstract
/0,3425,en_33873108_33873555_39696377_1_1_1_1,00.html)
UNDP, Millennium Development Goals Report: Korea (2007) |
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Just to clarify, that's 77% of Korean women who work, not 77% of Korean women. |
You are correct sir...that is what I mean but I phrased it badly.
(For anyone who cares as to the latter amount it's 58.7% as of 2008 according to the below link.)
http://www.20-first.com/1066-0-statistics-highlight-south-korean-womens-low-status.html |
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zpeanut
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Location: Pohang, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| There's no evidence the new president is a feminist or will push women's issues. She didn't campaign on women's issues and a quick perusal of her transition team didn't find any women on it. |
ditto. From what I've heard from my bf, Ms. Park has pretty similar policies as the previous Mr. Lee - they are from the same party after all. In fact a lot of the younger voters are disappointed that she's been elected, something about her family history and her views being ultra conservative, just like her father who was president of Korea for 18 years. The only difference is that she's a woman.
In regards to the question of stay-at-home mums, from what I've been told by my korean language teachers recently, the general mindset is that if your wife does not make more than 2,000,000 a month then it's really not worth it for her to work. It seems childcare is expensive.
Personally I think it's mentally a good thing to get out of the house and have another purpose in life than raising kids. Wives are often addressed as 'so and so's mother' instead of being called by their name. It's cultural, I know, but I'm sure there are people out there who would agree that culture needs to change a little to match with the times. Women need to preserve their own identities.
To those who are talking about an increase of crime and obesity, well that sort of thing can be solved with prevention. Prevention in the form of education and lifestyle change. I'm from a country where a lot of different kinds of families exist, a lot with both parents working. There's no massive issue with crime or obesity.
You could just get rid of McDonald's and KFC. |
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laynamarya
Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Location: Gwangjin-gu
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Personally I think it's mentally a good thing to get out of the house and have another purpose in life than raising kids. Wives are often addressed as 'so and so's mother' instead of being called by their name. It's cultural, I know, but I'm sure there are people out there who would agree that culture needs to change a little to match with the times. Women need to preserve their own identities. |
I agree with this. A fair number of my female K-friends' mothers sacrificed everything for their kids: time, money, travel opportunities, intellectual stimulation, social life, careers, identities, even their own names. But now, they regret it, and lay huge guilt trips on their kids. As soon as the kids get jobs, they have to start sending hundreds of thousands of won to their parents every month, sending them abroad on trips, buying them expensive presents, etc.
That's a cultural thing, too, I take care of you now, you take care of me later. But I'd rather maintain my identity and earn my own retirement money than put my kids through the guilt trips my friends have to deal with.
Of course, work-life balance is a key component to making this all work, but I really think going back to the work I love, at least part-time, is far better for the well-being of our whole family, than staying home and resenting my kids for it. |
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