Korean Job Discussion Forums

[World Traveler]

I had a conversation I will never forget for as long as I live. It has left such an impression on me.

Korean friend: "Many Koreans are angry."
Me: "Really? Why is that?"
Her: "Many Koreans are angry because they have studied English for more than ten years, yet still can't speak it."
Me: @.@

I am so inspired these days to work hard on lessons, out of sympathy for students stuck in an inefficient system. The methods used to teach and learn English must be suboptimal, because all Koreans study English for many years (it is mandatory from third grade onwards), yet few can speak it. The Korean government spends thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars per pupil during the course of their schooling, in an attempt to teach them English. It must be frustrating for all involved to invest so much, yet come up short.

[ttompatz]

It takes between 2000-3000 hours of study/practice to become proficient in a language.

Public schools give their students:
40 hours/yr of English in G3,4. (1 hr /week)
80 hours/yr in G5,6 (2 hrs. / wk)
120 hours/yr in G7-12.

80+160+(6*120) = 960.

Add 150 hours per year if they go to a hagwon (3hr/wk * 50 weeks) and after 12 years of hagwon + 12 years of school they are getting close to 2000 hours.

If they don't have those 12 years in a hagwon then the numbers just aren't there regardless of how efficient or inefficient the system is.

.

[s.tickbeat]

I actually find the Korean English system to be far more effective than the Canadian 'teach everyone French from 4th grade to ninth grade' method of things. Koreans generally speak much better English than most Canadians speak French.

[andrewchon]

I think the current teaching methods favour those who are not bashful. Shyness is seen as cowardice and not as reticent. That is a social shift, shyness in Korea used to be a virtue. Then on comes a culture that sees gay(shy)-bashing as a spectator sport, no wonder some people are angry.

[schwa]

A good number of Koreans speak english well. Comes down to whether they were self-determined to learn or just expecting to be spoon-fed.

[nautilus]

[PigeonFart]

Korean students of English rarely practice speaking English with each other. They should practice as much as possible given they live in such a homogenous society with few opportunities to interact with non-koreans.

I've never even seen Korean teachers of English speak English with each other! Pathetic. You'd think they'd avail of as many opportunities as possible. But there's such deep shame about speaking a foreign tongue in Korean culture. They find it even more unthinkable to speak English with a Korean (even when they know he/she speaks English). It's like they'll be percieved as weird or less Korean. Their hermit kingdom mindset/history is too blame.

Koreans should use English with each other as much as possible, they need to PRACTICE! Even in language exchange events where Koreans gather to speak English, they only speak Korean with each other.

Yes i do accept Korean and English as being very different languages. But my point about their reluctance to practice is the over-riding problem.

[ontheway]

[some waygug-in]

[tremault]

people are bound to get angry if they do what they have been told is the best way to learn English, yet can't get a handle on it.
If I was faced with a textbook every day and vocabulary lists, I would not become fluent. If there was no information for me to figure out *how to learn* then I would not be able to learn effectively.
Before I found Rosetta stone, I was trying to learn Japanese by old methods and I failed miserably.
people are going to get frustrated because they feel they have wasted all this time and haven't benefited from it.

It is an ESL teachers job to help these students.
Not just read from a text book and make satisfactory lesson plans etc. Also, include in the lessons, ways in which to become motivated to learn English and to become immersed in the language.

[some waygug-in]

And when the teacher does those things and the students are too lazy to

try them?

Oh yes, it's the teacher's fault. The lessons weren't "funny" or what have you.


There's only so much a teacher can do.


When there are several students in the same class, studying the same material and only 1 or 2 are willing to put in any extra effort; the rest sit and complain about the teacher/lessons.....

guess which ones are going to learn something?

[Dodge7]

If they are so angry because their ENglish isn't good enough, maybe they should have focused more on learning it in elem/Middle/High school instead of giving the English teacher ddong chims or playing on their phones during class.
I have absolutely ZERO compassion for Koreans who haven't mastered English with all of the hours poured into learning it over the course of their lives. They have only themselves to blame--not us.

[earthquakez]

Those Koreans need to focus their anger on the lazy Korean teachers at elementary/middle/high school who spent their energy on thwarting native teachers' attempts to get them to actually do some learning.

Instead many native English teachers are confronted by appalling attitudes in the school system such as it's fine for Korean students to disrespect the waygugin teacher because after all, they're waygugin aren't they?

So the students can talk in Korean over the foreign teacher, play with each other, stroke each others' hair, draw pictures, eat snacks and try to use their mobile phones.

My first public school job was like that and the other foreigners in the neighbouring elementary and high schools noted the same thing. We all had a lot of experience in other countries but we were treated like people who were out her for a gap year.

That's right - the mentality of most of the Koreans we worked with was like that. We were professional, we wanted the students to learn. Most of the Korean co teachers I had in 3 yrs of public school teaching wanted me to handle the class by myself so they could go and sleep during classtime.

When I did activities they complained that I was playing games - which I wasn't. When I made the students speak in English they complained that English class time with the foreigner was supposed to be fun.

When I handled all the discipline myself and still managed to teach fast, informative classes I realised that only a certain percentage of my students would benefit as most of them had been encouraged by Korean society not to take a foreigner seriously and so any attempts at instilling respect were bound to fail most of the time. The worst thing is the Korean teachers fostered bad attitudes.

This goes on everywhere more or less and is a key reason why many Korean school students leave school with 'I'm fine thank you' and nothing else. Meanwhile I spoke functional French from less years of French learning at school and could live and work in France because of my French language capabilities.

[Steelrails]

Where did it say that they were blaming us?

[Julius]

The main reasons adults fail to learn are:

1. Lack of self-motivation: they expect the teacher to magically infect them with english because they paid money.
2. Lack of correct motivation: they go to english class mostly as a social event, or to pass exams
3. Lack of interest in foreign culture: The language is intertwined with foreign culture. If you have no curiosity about the outside world, then this will hamper you.
4. Anti- foreign attitudes: If you believe your teacher is somehow racially inferior to you or that you do not need to respect them, then it becomes almost impossible to learn anything from that person.
5. Nationalism: koreans often bond together by rejecting anything foreign. In such a climate, anyone speaking english or even making the effort to pronounce it correctly can be viewed as a sellout.
6. Using english class as a pick-up joint: Many adults are too busy trying to impress members of the opposite sex to focus on learning.
7. Lack of persistence: Some people give in too easy. Or view problems as a sort of personal victimisation rather than as interesting challenges.