Korean Job Discussion Forums

[edwardcatflap]

[swashbuckler]

I think there are valid arguements on both sides.

There is obviously a lot of hiring/firing and turnover that goes on, even at the univeristy level for non-tenure EFL lecturer positions. I think a big part of this is due to the fact that almost all of these jobs are still one or two-year contract basis, and therefore can afford little long-term stability. (One older guy I worked with on my last job had been in Korea for 15 years and had jumped around to at least five different uni jobs during that time. And he was 60 but STILL got job offers this time around). Of course, agism and sexism probably still probably play a role for many jobs, depending on who is doing the hiring (this is Korea after all).

Having said that, there obviously ARE also uni jobs out there that value the things Cheoulsu is taking about and put value on educational qualifications and experience (esp uni experience) over things like physical attractiveness. Of course, at least for the freshman English courses, the young beautiful and/or charming teachers probably stand a better chance of getting away with being a shit teacher, but that's a different story

[swashbuckler]

[Seoul_newbie]

With the influx of unemployed MAs and PhDs, these salaries may go down and stay at the 2.2 level for quite some time. Many ads now state that no housing is provided. Such perks may completely disappear.

[PRagic]

@ Seoul-newbia: You say, "No. Your pay WILL be different based on your nationality. For e.g. Indian professors get paid less than Korean professors."

I'd love to know where you're getting your information. This is NOT TRUE, at least at the two universities where I've held (and currently hold) a tenure track slot. At private universities, salaries can sometimes be negotiated, but a lower salary would only be offered because the quality of the degree, research, or the actual rank/pay grade might be different. At national universities, salaries are fixed based on strict scales.

I personally know a professor who is Indian working over here. He spent a great deal of his time researching at NASA prior to accepting his current job. Believe me, he makes just as much or more than his K. peers.

[PRagic]

Man, some of these salaries are insanely low. I taught a couple of semesters university ESL between when I finished my MBA and when I started my Ph.D. This was 1999 and I was getting 2.5 a month and the university provided us with housing. I was making more than my university salary on the outside every month, and killing it over the breaks. We taught 15 hours a week, and had either a 3 or 4 day schedule. No teaching over the fully paid breaks. My wife was working at the time, and I think we banked damn near 100 that year. Guess times must have changed.

[Alum]

"How can you not know the score by now? In the eyes of Korean employers the only good foreigner is a new one. For all their complaining about 'unqualified teachers' they don't really want experienced teachers. They want young grads who will be overwhelmed by the new experience of working in Asia and who don't know the game. People who have been around for a while, regardless of their credentials and teaching experience, are always going to be overlooked in favor of the 24 year old just out of college."

What do you think? Is this analysis too cynical? Are there other factors at play? Or does it hit the proverbial nail on the head?

Sounds like just another whiner� There are plenty of places in Korea who want good teachers, and not just a "green" someone to keep kids occupied for a few hours a day. Finding hakwons that are interested in educating may be harder to find, so don't stay there, duh! Improve your own education if you value education. What BS that you have to be young to get a job in Korea! If you have only a BA in some totally unrelated field and want to find the great jobs in Korea, you may be in for some struggles depending on the job market at the time. If you have a teaching background, degree(s) beyond a BA and can actually teach, you have the best chances at jobs whatever your age. I was hired at a hakwon in my late 40's fresh out of Peace Corps, EPIK when 50, and 2 different universities after that. Take responsibility for yourself, not blame your situation on some "THEY"...

[swashbuckler]

Sorry, I mean to write that 2.7 to 3.3 to include a housing ALLOWANCE, not housing.

[Konglishman]

In that case, PRagic, I know where you are working. I also worked there before leaving Korea last August. Yes, in that particular department due its high profile nature, the Indian professor was able to get an unbelievably high salary mainly due to him having been at NASA before.

However, in certain other academic departments which employ foreign professors on 2 year or even 1 year contracts (in 1 professor's case), there is no transparent salary scale. I asked about it and was told that it was secret.

[Konglishman]

By the way, it really is a systematic issue in Korean universities. I would consider the thread below from the Chronicle to be second hand anecdotal evidence of that. Of course, I do think there are some universities such as GIST which have done a good job of totally avoiding problems such as pay discrimination based on nationality.

http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,65535.msg1469883.html#msg14