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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| You left out Turkey which has a pact with Israel. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
I get the impression that "knowledge and consent" is kind of the key difference here. |
Birth control shots last three short months. The notion that the average Ethiopian immigrant is so ignorant and foolish that one could keep them on these shots without their knowledge for any period of time sufficient to have a serious demographic impact is almost race-based disparagement in its own right. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| You left out Turkey which has a pact with Israel. |
However, Turkey does not automatically side with Israel. There has been a fair amount of criticism from Turkey on Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
I get the impression that "knowledge and consent" is kind of the key difference here. |
Birth control shots last three short months. The notion that the average Ethiopian immigrant is so ignorant and foolish that one could keep them on these shots without their knowledge for any period of time sufficient to have a serious demographic impact is almost race-based disparagement in its own right. |
lol
If you think they're too stupid to figure out that we're giving them temporary sterilization shots, then you're a racist. The fact that we administered it without their knowledge or consent is irrelevant. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| The one fact we have about this case is a directive from the Israeli government to absolutely ensure Ethiopian women -- who, again, it welcomed into the country in voluntary fashion as legal immigrants -- understand and want birth control before giving it to them. That is the exact opposite of what you describe, yet that does not stop you from assigning guilt for a conspiracy which may never have occurred. Then again, we do have one vague, anonymous quote, so let's just go wild, yes? |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:04 am Post subject: |
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If israel is such a fascist hell ,how could this possibly have gotten reported in the press?? Free speech perhaps?? But they are fascist and there can not be free speech in a fascist society, thats contridictory. The women are informed of the shots?? but that would mean they have a choice. Oh I see!
I love the jargon, Nazi- theo-fascist . No thought just phrases some wildly inaccurate.
Lovely thread, waiting for someone to write "I even have some jewish friends" But carry on. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
I got a deal for everyone here. All those against Israel throw the book at Israel . Get every last thing on them you can bring to light every wrong Israel has ever done . However in the interest of fairness any supporter of Israel likewise is free to do the same against Israel's enemies.
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Please define "against Israel" in the context of this thread.
Last edited by Titus on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| If israel is such a fascist hell ,how could this possibly have gotten reported in the press?? Free speech perhaps?? But they are fascist and there can not be free speech in a fascist society, thats contridictory. |
Israel does not have freedom of speech.
Any white nation that behaved like Israel would be called fascist by the hundreds of Judaic organizations around the world. The AJC, ADL, SPLC would go bonkers in their hysterical activism and name calling.
| NohopeSeriously wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| Finally, no one should be considered anti-Semitic if he or she disagrees with certain policies of Israel. Simply put, Israel does not equal Judaism. So, having a problem with Israel, does not mean that one has a problem with Jews or Judaism. |
This is true. The only true symbol of old Israelites and modern Jewish people is the Menorah. The Star of David is not a Jewish symbol and it's on the flag of modern Israel. This is a common sense for anyone who has basic knowledge of Abrahamic history. |
http://mondoweiss.net/2013/02/palestinian-israeli-polling.html
http://takimag.com/article/israels_fertility_policy_bears_fruit_steve_sailer/print#ixzz2JrO5uUGf
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Between 1984 and 1991, Israel achieved a public-relations coup by importing tens of thousands of Ethiopians who claimed to be Jews. Over the last decade, however, Israel has been taking direct action to limit its black citizens� fertility.
Originally, Israel had banned immigration by the various sub-Saharan African tribes that claim some kind of hazy Jewish heritage, arguing that they aren�t real Jews. (Recent DNA studies suggest that Ethiopian Jews are only tenuously related to other Jews. These communities probably had a limited number of Jewish ancestors, travelers who married into the much larger local populations.)
In the fevered post-1967 ideological climate, however, Zionism was denounced around the world as racism, as the latest manifestation of white colonialism. The Jewish state hit upon the PR masterstroke of embracing its Ethiopian aspirants.
This didn�t mollify the Arabs, but the symbolism pleased a more important audience: American Jews concerned about Israel appearing racist. Unsurprisingly, this living proof that you could be Israeli and black proved immensely popular with American Jews, who showered Israel�s small community of Ethiopians with $600 million in donations.
Also unsurprisingly, the Ethiopians have proved increasingly less popular with their Israeli neighbors, who have come to view them and their children as backward and crime-prone. Whether that is due to white Israelis� racism or to the blacks� shortcomings is a matter of dispute.
What is clear is that Israelis have lost their na�vet� about African immigrants.
Israel�s government has allowed most of the remaining Ethiopian Jews to immigrate, but it has not leapt at any of the new opportunities facilitated by DNA testing to declare additional East African tribes eligible. For example, since Robert Mugabe began destroying Zimbabwe�s economy, some of the Lemba people of that unfortunate land have been agitating for the right to move to Israel based on their vaguely Jewish customs and DNA. But Israel has not been forthcoming.
The booming Israeli economy naturally attracts black illegal immigrants. The Israeli government long relied on Egypt�s Mubarak regime to keep blacks from approaching its border, but the Arab Spring sprung a leak in that system.
So Israel has been hustling to finish its border fences to keep out black undocumented workers (or, as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu calls them, �illegal infiltrators�). Contrary to American conventional wisdom, fences seem to work just fine in Israel. The Interior Ministry recently announced that African intruders dropped from 2,295 in January of 2012 to only 54 in October.
Most interestingly, since 2008 there has been evidence of a widespread resolve within Israeli society to drive down the fertility of its Ethiopian minority through forcefully persuading poorly educated black women into accepting injections of the Depo-Provera contraceptive.
Depo-Provera has long figured prominently among the bugaboos of leftist and black conspiracy theorists. They see it as part of the White Man�s Plot to reduce black fertility.
They may be right.
First tested on black welfare mothers in Georgia in 1967, Depo-Provera injections are publicly said to work for three months, although I�ve been told that they are effective for longer. (Note: Do not take medical advice from me.) The three-month label is supposed to be a cover story to get the more scatterbrained patients back in for another shot before the old one wears off.
Depo-Provera has long been most widely used in Third World countries but wasn�t approved for American use until the peak of the crack crisis in 1992. As hoped and/or feared, it has been more often prescribed to African Americans. It appears to have helped drive down their birthrate from the peak in 1991.
In Israel, Ethiopian women have said on camera that Israeli immigration officials told them that they wouldn�t be allowed into the country without taking Depo-Provera shots. They claim to have been subsequently browbeaten into staying on the contraceptive. One study found that Ethiopian women account for 57 percent of all Israel�s Depo-Provera prescriptions.
In December, an Israeli news show recorded an Israeli nurse telling an Ethiopian immigrant that the injections are given
primarily to Ethiopian women because they forget, they don�t understand, and it�s hard to explain to them, so it�s best that they receive a shot once every three months�basically they don�t understand anything.
Whether the Israeli approach to reducing black fertility is written or unwritten, it seems to be working. The Ethiopian-Israeli fertility rate is said to have dropped by nearly 50 percent in the last decade.
In contrast to Israelis, who obsess over demographics, Americans are never allowed to think about how proposed policies such as amnesty and guest workers will impact fertility, even though the current interpretation of the 14th Amendment grants instant citizenship to any child born in the US.
Overall, Israel�s government and society have done an impressive job showing that a determined polity can alter fertility rates in its own favor. It was long said that the Jewish state was doomed by the much higher total fertility of Israeli Muslims, who as recently as 2000 were having babies at a rate of 4.57 per lifetime compared to only 2.67 for Israeli Jews. How could anyone possibly close that gap?
Yet by 2011, the Muslim TFR had fallen to 3.51, while the Jewish TFR grew to 2.98.
Israel deserves careful study by Americans. It demonstrates what an intelligent, self-governing people can accomplish.
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Israel exists to advance the collective well being of Jews. I'm completely supportive of what Israel is doing here. When I say Israel is a fascist ethno-state I am not using the term as a pejorative. Liberalism is ethnic suicide. When Israel works to diminish the TFR of some segments and increase the TFR of other segments it is deciding who it will be in the future. In the former West we don't make these decisions. Our nations will be whoever shows up. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
The question that I have and is not fully answered in the article is why? The article alluded to 'controlling birthrate' but why would they want that?
What is the elephant in the room that is not being said? |
exactly what I was thinking |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| No_hite_pls wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
The question that I have and is not fully answered in the article is why? The article alluded to 'controlling birthrate' but why would they want that?
What is the elephant in the room that is not being said? |
exactly what I was thinking |
I'm not sure how it's an elephant in the room. At least on this thread, the argument has been advanced that the Israeli government wants a lower birth-rate among Ethiopians for reasons of racial prejudice.
Whether that's true or not, I don't know. I suspect that the whole thing unfolded something like this...
The Israeli government figured that "Hey, we're letting in all these Ethiopians, and those people tend to be poor and have a lotta kids who are gonna swell the welfare rolls and prison population. Better make sure they have good access to contraception".
At a lower level, some of the people implementing the policy weren't too diligent about assuring that the women knew all the options available to them, and probably exerted a bit of pressure on them to accept the injections.
Now, at both levels, the actors were probably framing it to themselves as "We're not just doing this to save money and mollify public opinion. If those women really knew what was good for them, of course they'd want to have fewer children. That's what everybody wants, right?"
It can often be hard to disentangle paternalism from racism, especially in cases where someone who doesn't care for the race in general might have some sympathy for people of that race as individuals. I don't want more people of Group X living in my society, and hey, I'm sure the women in Group X don't want to spend their whole lives barefoot and pregnant, so it's a win/win for everyone! |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
The question that I have and is not fully answered in the article is why? The article alluded to 'controlling birthrate' but why would they want that?
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Well, some of the women probably did want small families on their own accord. As for any coercion that may have taken place...
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Speaking to reporters on an episode of Israel Educational Television�s investigative show �Vacuum� that aired on Saturday, several immigrants described the intense pressure placed on them to keep their families small. The women claimed Israeli representatives from the Joint Distribution Committee (JDC) and the Health Ministry told them that raising large families is especially difficult, that it is for hard people with many children to find work and support their families, and that many landlords would not be willing to rent apartments to large families.
Gal Gabbai, the show�s anchor, reported that in the past decade, approximately 50,000 Ethiopian Jews have immigrated to Israel. During that period, the birth rate among this community, which has traditionally favored very large families, has plummeted by nearly 50 percent.
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So, maybe some genuine concern for the welfare of the families involved. However, it's probably not amiss to speculate that the usual quasi-eugenic mindset was at work here as well. You know: "These third-worlders breed like rabbits. The last thing we need is ten-people-to-a-room, sucking off the public teat. If we're gonna let them in, better make sure we keep their numbers down."
link |
I'm not sure how advising people "that raising large families is especially difficult, that it is for hard people with many children to find work and support their families, and that many landlords would not be willing to rent apartments to large families" is somehow "intense pressure".
Nor am I sure how such advice equates to a "usual quasi-eugenic mindset" which you somehow (on the basis of an unsubstantiated vague report that could have used a grammar checker) ascribe to Israel.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
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...When I say Israel is a fascist ethno-state I am not using the term as a pejorative. .. |
So it's a compliment and we can take away from this statement that you are a supporter of fascism?
Is this what you are saying? |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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I could be completely off on this but its what I've always 'heard' about the 'falasha' being brought in.
My understanding is that the Israelis weren't too keen on bringing them in and were a bit slow on doing so but did so because it would look bad if they didn't. Also, AIDS were their primary concern, economic issues secondary. Didn't hear the criminal aspect as a reason but I could understand it as a concern.
Afterall, their law is that the global Jewry has a right of return to Israel.
Is that inaccurate? Not trying to label them but its been what I always understood about the situation.
Like all groups of size, Jews are no different in that they view different Jews with different attitudes. American history showed that western European Jews (Germans, Brits, etc.) often didn't associate with east European Jews as well as the Sephardic variety from Spain, etc. who were of a more 'olive' skinned variety. Again, no different than any other group of people to have their own internal dislikes and prejudices. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
Israel exists to advance the collective well being of Jews. I'm completely supportive of what Israel is doing here. When I say Israel is a fascist ethno-state I am not using the term as a pejorative. Liberalism is ethnic suicide. When Israel works to diminish the TFR of some segments and increase the TFR of other segments it is deciding who it will be in the future. In the former West we don't make these decisions. Our nations will be whoever shows up. |
Yeah, how dare they have a place that they can call thier own. |
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