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More Than Half of Workers Earn Under W2 Million
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TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:16 pm Post subject:

World Traveler wrote:

Right. That's why we should ask for more, and stop treating ourselves like chopped liver. ).

Who is "we"?

How exactly do we justify our demand for asking "more'?

And how do we prevent them from just replacing us or not hiring us in the first place?

Individually one can (IF they bring something more to the table than most applicants) negotiate a good/very good deal. And no, "bringing something to the table" doesn't necessarily include a F-visa.
But as a whole we are all, (even those people mentioned above) completely replaceable. And in the case of PS it's designed specifically that way. Get a good deal, get the money (and when the time comes) get out.

In the meantime, upgrading one's credentials, taking pride in one's work and doing the best they can for the students doesn't hurt either. Contrary to popular opinion on this board...it DOES get noticed as does the opposite behavior. It may take some time but eventually it will register.

No_hite_pls

Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: laugh out loud

12ax7 wrote:

No_hite_pls wrote:

World Traveler wrote:

creeper1 wrote:

There are posters on here making excess of 6 million a month.

For cash, plenty of cash, and to laugh all the way to the bank choose Korea.

Laughing

OK, first of all the only (and by only I mean 99+%) people making 6 mil a month are lifers with Korean wives (and hence the f visa). Also there is the dude who graduated from a top ranked university and published several books. How many people are like that though? The glass ceiling for almost everyone is very low.
Next, Korea has a widespread problem with Korean citizens underreporting income to avoid paying taxes. We are not filthy rich compared to the locals, and we are not filthy rich compared to our peers back home. For most of us, Korea is not as good of a deal as it once was.

Quote:

People who were here 10 years ago will tell you it was like being a rock star and you made as much money as a middle income office worker at least. University jobs were easy to get as well. Do you know how much the women in Kebab restaurants make? About 2M. Recently my wife was talking to a woman who sold waffles in a tiny crappy tent outside my apartment she said she made 3M!

Furthermore, most ESLers have post graduate certifications (CELTA, TESOL) and/or advanced degrees.

Most? No. Besides...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-most-educated-countries-in-the-world.html?page=all

So, it's not as if the average South Korean is uneducated.

Fact, almost every public school job in the entire country now requires some sort of post graduate certifications.

South Korean universities pass almost everyone, graduating from a western university is not the same as graduating from a Korean university.
There is reason that Koreans want to study abroad. A western degree will actually be respected in Korea and all over the world.

For instance at my western university only 49% of freshman would graduate within five years, even though students needed a 3.6 grade point average to get in to the university.

12ax7

Joined: 07 Nov 2009

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:11 am Post subject: Re: laugh out loud

No_hite_pls wrote:

12ax7 wrote:

No_hite_pls wrote:

World Traveler wrote:

creeper1 wrote:

There are posters on here making excess of 6 million a month.

For cash, plenty of cash, and to laugh all the way to the bank choose Korea.

Laughing

Quote:

Furthermore, most ESLers have post graduate certifications (CELTA, TESOL) and/or advanced degrees.

Most? No. Besides...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-most-educated-countries-in-the-world.html?page=all

So, it's not as if the average South Korean is uneducated.

I strongly doubt most foreign ESL teachers in Korea have at least a TESOL certificate.

As for the rest of your argument...Depends which university and which major you studied if you studied in Korea.

PS. I could go on and on about the historical reasons why a degree earned abroad is often perceived superior by Koreans, regardless of whether it is or not...but it's getting late and I have no interest in getting into that discussion.

Weigookin74

Joined: 26 Oct 2009

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:54 pm Post subject:

newb wrote:

Los Angeloser wrote:

"AVG. less than 2 million Won" -
Which is why Korean media likes to report that Eng. teachers earn a highly exaggerated amount of money, to cause jealousy and hatred toward us. We get housing and ALL our bills paid, didn't you know? Besides, Koreans aren't very good at stats(despite their cough cough math skills) because they keep mixing up the two-tiers...
http://www.thekoreanlawblog.com/2013/01/inside-koreas-two-tiered-economy-by-tom.html

If you've been in Korea long enough and learn the language to understand their news and various reports, you will find above report to be spot on. Thus, what I've said earlier should make sense.

Quote:

Don't believe everything you see and hear in Korea. Most Koreans drive overpriced cars and live in luxury apartments that they can't afford just to show off. These people are one paycheck away from offing themselves but it's cultural to fake it to save face.

There is a real good reason why Korea is the best in suicide.

I have a question. Maybe a long term expat can tell me this answer. Do they actually have bankruptcy here or are you sent off to some kind of debtors prison? I had head of some young women being forced to become hookers and some old guys having their legs broken. Though I assume those things are due to illegal loans or gambling debts. Reason I ask is because you sometimes hear of folks committing suicide due to debts but didn't know if it was merely because of face (shame) or other things.

slothrop

Joined: 03 Feb 2003

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:15 pm Post subject:

edit Last edited by slothrop on Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total

newb

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:30 pm Post subject:

Weigookin74 wrote:

newb wrote:

Los Angeloser wrote:

If you've been in Korea long enough and learn the language to understand their news and various reports, you will find above report to be spot on. Thus, what I've said earlier should make sense.

Quote:

Yes, they have bankruptcies. You are right. The most Koreans choose to off themselves rather than face shame, if they can't keep up with their neighbors.

What I've learned and seen in Korea over the years is that most people who own home take out first, second, and even third home equity line of credit loans to support their habits to show-off to their neighbors. Now that the realestate market has turned south, people are struggling to payback their loans. Several years back, Koreans were speculating on realestate market. Koreans who already owned homes were taking out loans to purchase second and third homes, and now they're on the verge of losing everything. Thus, a new term "House Poor" has emerged. It all sounds familiar? The U.S. has had similar problem recently. Razz

Last edited by newb on Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

slothrop

Joined: 03 Feb 2003

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject:

edit Last edited by slothrop on Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:28 am; edited 2 times in total

misher

Joined: 14 Oct 2008

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:15 pm Post subject:

Quote:

i read that as recently as the 1980's japanese women who couldn't pay credit card debt were forced into prostitution. not by the credit card companies themselves, but by the yakuza owned collection agencies that bought the debt for pennies on dollar.

That happened in South Korea too and still goes on today.

A lot of women who owe money get forced into the room salon circuit. They may or may not have to sell sex but no one really knows for sure.

Swampfox10mm

Joined: 24 Mar 2011

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:57 pm Post subject:

Stan Rogers wrote:

The study assumes that the statistics are accurate.

The study's findings also assume that all Koreans are declaring 100% of their earnings.

Grain of salt anyone?

I agree with this.

But I will also say that the rich are far richer and the averagr person poorer simply because of housing and inflation. Taxes are increasing quickly, too.

Weigookin74

Joined: 26 Oct 2009

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:24 pm Post subject:

misher wrote:

Quote:

That happened in South Korea too and still goes on today.

A lot of women who owe money get forced into the room salon circuit. They may or may not have to sell sex but no one really knows for sure.

This I had wondered about. Do gangsters buy credit from legitimate companies or are these women borrowing money from illegal sources in the first place?

newb

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:46 pm Post subject:

Weigookin74 wrote:

misher wrote:

Quote:

That happened in South Korea too and still goes on today.

A lot of women who owe money get forced into the room salon circuit. They may or may not have to sell sex but no one really knows for sure.

This I had wondered about. Do gangsters buy credit from legitimate companies or are these women borrowing money from illegal sources in the first place?

There are two types:

1. Some women do it voluntarily to support their expensive habits such as buying expensive handbags and clothes.

2. Some run up credit card debt buying expensive handbags and clothes so they end up borrowing money from gangsters with 30-100% monthly (not annual) interest to support their habit. When they're unable to pay back the money, they end up working for the gangsters.

slothrop

Joined: 03 Feb 2003

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:51 pm Post subject:

edit Last edited by slothrop on Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total

Weigookin74

Joined: 26 Oct 2009

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:30 pm Post subject:

slothrop wrote:

Weigookin74 wrote:

misher wrote:

Quote:

That happened in South Korea too and still goes on today.

A lot of women who owe money get forced into the room salon circuit. They may or may not have to sell sex but no one really knows for sure.

This I had wondered about. Do gangsters buy credit from legitimate companies or are these women borrowing money from illegal sources in the first place?

does it matter? if a credit card company sells your default debt to gangsters... or if you borrowed directly from the gangsters... or you borrowed from a legitimate gangster owned lending company that charges 40% interest anually? either way=debt slavery, or if you are an attractive young women=sex slavery.

btw, to get back to topic, 2 mil is NOT middle class.LOL i think to be considered middleclass in korea you need to be able to afford to pay off a mortgage on a 30pyoung(not necessarily luxury) apt. that'll run you about 180mil in a city that's NOT seoul. and be able to afford a mil per month on hagwan fees for your kids. i'd say 4-5 mil a month qualifies as middle class. and alot of people earning that save nothing and have major debt. just to keep up with the joneses.

but why does anyone think an esl teacher should make middle class money? do foreign language teachers in your home country who teach at language schools earn big bucks or have job security or retirement plans?LOL do you consider your former public school teachers back in your home countries to be "raking it in" or even middle class? i know i didn't think of my former teachers in my hometown as well off. i remember most of them as disgruntled/given up on life for minimal security zombies.

i used to teach korean public school teachers in graduate courses and alot of them had regrets about the path they'd chosen. more than a few ranted how they should have gone for other gov jobs like dong office worker or DMV. teaching is a thankless, low reward, high stress job. esl used to be a good way to see the world and save some bucks for further travels. but as a career? really? btw, my former uni pays the same salary for foreign profs now that they did 13 years ago.LOL
good luck to us all.

It matters because credit card companies back home don't sell money to gangsters and would be discusting and illegal to do so. I ask because I hope it is not the practice here. But had heard some Asian countries had let it happen.

As for the salary deal, two people have to work and have a combined income in the 4 to 6 million range. One person making 2 to 3 million and another doing the same does this. As for wages being flat, blame a downed US economy flooding this market. But what about Koreans in the job market? Real unemployment here is something like 10 to 11 per cent and I would suspect the average Korean has seen flat or declining wages too. (I suspect that 98% of Koreans don't get to work for Samsung.) Two million was definately better 10 years ago than today. Ten years from now, we all better have a Korean exit plan, if things don't improve. Let's plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Still over 2 million is lower middle class. It use to be middle middle class. We are neither poor nor rich. Family life here with only 2 to 3 million a month will be difficult no doubt. In the future, it'll be poverty wages, unless the market flips back.

slothrop

Joined: 03 Feb 2003

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:41 pm Post subject:

edit Last edited by slothrop on Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:29 am; edited 1 time in total

silkhighway

Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:44 pm Post subject:

slothrop wrote:

but why does anyone think an esl teacher should make middle class money? do foreign language teachers in your home country who teach at language schools earn big bucks or have job security or retirement plans?LOL do you consider your former public school teachers back in your home countries to be "raking it in" or even middle class? i know i didn't think of my former teachers in my hometown as well off. where i'm from full time supermarket employees make more than public school teachers. i remember most of my teachers as disgruntled/given up on life for minimal security zombies.

i used to teach korean public school teachers in graduate courses and alot of them had regrets about the path they'd chosen. more than a few ranted how they should have gone for other gov jobs like dong office worker or DMV. teaching is a thankless, low reward, high stress job.

Woah, back up there. Where is "home"? In most parts of Canada, public school teachers make a very respectable wage, as do public school teachers in Korea, especially for women who don't have that many high paying career options to begin with. Of course they complain, nobody is ever satisfied.

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