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| Would you take a pay cut to remain employed in Korea |
| Yes |
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14% |
[ 8 ] |
| No |
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31% |
[ 17 ] |
| It depends |
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27% |
[ 15 ] |
| I don't know |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
| No way in heck!!! |
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14% |
[ 8 ] |
| I would work for free |
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7% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 54 |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Supply and demand affects everything. Before the recession flooded Korea, the demand for teachers was high and the supply was low. So, wages and benefits kept going up. Now, things have gotten worse but also stabilized. Wages are flatter. But the longer this goes on or if another worse downturn happens, count on wages going down. I think they haven't because the public school came onto the scene and stabilized things. If 100 % of those jobs disappeared, wages would probably go down. If people had the option of leaving, they would. If they don't, they won't. But, I could bet if jobs fell to 1.5 Million or less, there would be a mass exodus. |
Sort of like the exodus in '97/98 during and just after the "IMF" crisis.
EFL is a growth industry (globally).
Just as Japan was in its ascendency in the early 90s it fell then stabilized in the early part of the 2000's. 2002 = Korea was the new "Wild East" and rising.
Move forward 10 years and history is repeating itself. Korea is falling as an EFL market for any number of reasons.
China and the ASEAN block are rising. 10 years ago an EFL job for someone with a degree was paying 3000 rmb. Now those same jobs are 8-15k RMB + benefits (depending on the local market and demographics).
As I said much earlier in the post.
The answer is a definite maybe and in my personal case a definite no.
-IF someone had no choice but to stay then taking a cut is preferable to long term unemployment. (yes)
-If someone had the ability to get re-employed quickly then a pay cut is probably not a preferable option (start looking for a new job and change at their convenience). (no)
-If people have the option to leave Korea (no real ties to the country other than perhaps a long stay) and then taking a pay cut may be preferable to upending their roots and moving along (people don't really like change after they get settled). (maybe)
-For a newcomer to Korea and getting hit with a pay cut - pull up and move on. Plane tickets are cheap and there are LOTS of viable options in East and SE Asia with comparable benefts and equal savings potential. No hagwon is worth the headache.
To close, to those with TIES to Korea taking a pay cut might be an acceptable option.
To those with no ties, Korea never was the best choice in terms of culture, quality of life, of lifestyle. Its ONLY real draw was the money and benefits. When those are gone there is no reason to stay or even to come.
. |
Right. Most teachers in Korea who don't have long-term ties to the country (marriage, etc.) work in entry-level positions with little room for professional growth. Why would you take a pay cut to stay at a dead-end job in an industry that will almost assuredly shrink? The hagwon industry expanded too far, too fast, and a lot of those schools are going to have to close; it's not the responsibility of foreign teachers to offer charity to their current employers in the form of reduced wages, not when those employers will literally never do anything to make it in the teacher's long-term interest to stay there. Take a pay cut to stay at your average Korean EFLer's job? Nope, just move along. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
I did take a pay cut the last year I was there. I had to agree to work
for the same wage as a newbie or no job.
I can't believe public schools have no money, they've got all kinds of money for expensive computer rooms that don't get used and a lot of other stuff.
It's just another example of Korean's attitudes towards foreign teachers. |
As I said, the economy and many people wanting to work in Seoul or Gyeonggi. But, EPIK elsewhere has not cut wages. Let's hope it doesn't come. But the longer this malaise continues, there may be downward pressure. |
Officially they say wages are the same, but regional education officials have their own ideas. I was told directly that I would have to accept the bottom tier wage in order to get the job.
Don't tell me this doesn't happen, because I experienced it personally. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| kinship wrote: |
| Quote: |
I can't believe public schools have no money, they've got all kinds of money for expensive computer rooms that don't get used and a lot of other stuff.
It's just another example of Korean's attitudes towards foreign teachers. |
Maybe so but it also means that they have different priorities to look after as well. Should the students receive and use inferior equipment while learning how to use computers or learn how to cook?
There is only so much money to go around and many schools and departments all are asking for their slice of the pie. |
No one said they should have old computers,
but if they are going to buy them, they should be using them.
(that is what I meant)
The second last school I worked at spent a fortune on a computer based English village,
complete with big screen monitors and brand new equipement.
The stuff was all set up in an extra classroom and kept locked.
I never saw 1 person use it.
The one time the room was used was when we were practicing for an upcoming English speech contest and we were allowed to use that room. (but none of the equipment)
If English is not so important, I can understand that. But to give the excuse that there is no money.... well that just ain't so.
The next school district I went to spent a fortune making 1 school into "the English school" for the area.
A lot of money was spent on renovations and putting things like "British style" phone booths and double decker buses and some
tacky pictures.
No money was spent on books or things that might actually be useful. |
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kinship
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| No money was spent on books or things that might actually be useful. |
It just sounds like you have different ideas about what is important. Usually, there is extra money in the budget for native speakers that can be spent on new books. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Well, why wasn't it then?
The schools I worked at had only the basic textbooks and nothing else.
You whine and complain about the FT's saying you can't afford to
pay for qualified teachers, but won't even buy basic reading materials for
your schools? Won't even buy the supplimental materials that are supposed
to be used with the textbooks? But got money to spend on British style
phone booths?
Yeah, I guess my priorities are all wrong. Phone booths are way more
important. Silly me. I just don't understand the Korean way.
Last edited by some waygug-in on Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:50 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| Don't forget that certain people who post (or used to post) on this board were here when the Asian financial crisis was wreaking havoc in Korea. That was a pay cut like no other. |
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kinship
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Well, why wasn't it then?
The schools I worked at had only the basic textbooks and nothing else. |
The year after we did this at one school, we had bought a million won's worth of books for about 800,000 at k & J's, I was told that an edict had come down from the province that the money was not to be used for English materials. The provincial authorities felt that too few students benefited from the purchase of extra English books. The money had t be spent in a way that all students got to enjoy it.
That is what I was told about that. Needless to say, the Korean English teachers still use that resource library for all their students 4 years later.
| Quote: |
Yeah, I guess my priorities are all wrong. Phone booths are way more
important. Silly me. I just don't understand the Korean way. |
I went through this when my first public school got government money to build a proper English room. They bought blinds with pictures of western iconic sites on them, Sydney's Opera House, the Statue of Liberty, etc., and the reasoning they used was that they felt that the atmosphere was helping the students in their English learning.
That may be the reasoning behind the phone booths at your school. I don't know but it is their money and they get to spend it as they see fit. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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I see. I expected something like that.
I went to an EFL/ school tradeshow presentation (I'm not sure what to call it)
I was with my 3 co-teachers and school principal. We attended a seminar which was presented by the local board of education. The guest speaker
was someone who had spent years teaching in Japan and Korea and had
degrees up the yang behind his name.
His presentation boiled down to the effectiveness of having English reading
materials available for students to read (or just browse through).
He claimed it was one of the most cost-effective ways of promoting English learning. His presentation cited several studies well researched.
After his presentation everyone clapped and I was sure
our principal was going to buy some books for the school.
Instead, I learned that he had spent a huge amount on a computer learning system which included new computers, large monitors and a
full line of programs. My head co-teacher pointed it out to me at the trade show telling me that we are getting this for the school. She went on about how expensive it was. As I posted earlier, the system was set
up at our school and kept in a locked extra classroom. To my knowledge
it was never used for the remainder of that year. (about 6 months.)
The money was supposed to be used for the English program. *~*
It seems to me that there is very little desire to improve English in
public schools and a very strong desire to hinder. |
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kinship
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Instead, I learned that he had spent a huge amount on a computer learning system which included new computers, large monitors and a
full line of programs. My head co-teacher pointed it out to me at the trade show telling me that we are getting this for the school. She went on about how expensive it was. As I posted earlier, the system was set
up at our school and kept in a locked extra classroom. |
Thanks for reminding me of a reason I had forgotten about. Sounds like your principal just wanted to have 'status' and something to brag about. Buying books is not going to give him that. |
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newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 4 people including me are willing to teach for free. Isn't that something? |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| newb wrote: |
| 4 people including me are willing to teach for free. Isn't that something? |
yes it is i would need to be paid in kimchi at the very least |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| newb wrote: |
| 4 people including me are willing to teach for free. Isn't that something? |
Just to clarify, you'd rather teach English in Korea for free than teach English in another country at a normal wage? |
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Moondoggy
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
A simple "no".
Korea is a G20 "developed" nation so there is no reason to take a cut so someone else can line their pocket or make further profit at my expense.
Korea is not the be all, end all for work outside of our home countries.
For a newbie entering EFL then perhaps it might still be the best choice in terms of pay and savings but not to take pay cuts for the privilege of staying here.
If someone is tied to Korea for heritage or family reasons and was unwilling or unable to move onward or upward due to limits in their credentials or abilities then perhaps I could understand.
There are more than ample opportunities in the education / EFL industry in Asia and I am not tied at the apron strings to Korea so, no. I would NOT take a pay cut to stay employed nor would I take a pay cut to stay in Korea.
I will move onward, upward and forward.
. |
Good grief people.
ttompatz, you're at the risk of sounding like a know-it-all when you're obviously not.
Last edited by Moondoggy on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| newb wrote: |
| 4 people including me are willing to teach for free. Isn't that something? |
Just to clarify, you'd rather teach English in Korea for free than teach English in another country at a normal wage? |
Yes. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Moondoggy wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
A simple "no".
Korea is a G20 "developed" nation so there is no reason to take a cut so someone else can line their pocket or make further profit at my expense.
Korea is not the be all, end all for work outside of our home countries.
For a newbie entering EFL then perhaps it might still be the best choice in terms of pay and savings but not to take pay cuts for the privilege of staying here.
If someone is tied to Korea for heritage or family reasons and was unwilling or unable to move onward or upward due to limits in their credentials or abilities then perhaps I could understand.
There are more than ample opportunities in the education / EFL industry in Asia and I am not tied at the apron strings to Korea so, no. I would NOT take a pay cut to stay employed nor would I take a pay cut to stay in Korea.
I will move onward, upward and forward.
. |
Good grief people.
ttompatz, you're at the risk of sounding like a know-it-all when you're obviously not. |
???
You mean I should take a pay cut so some place like CDI can rake in more cash at my expense?
Perhaps I should take a cut in pay for the simple privilege of staying in Korea?
It must be the ultimate destination for all people and they must all have some need to be here? It is the Nirvana of the world, a veritable Shangri-la.
NOT.
Perhaps the people of Korea are so poor and disadvantaged that they need our assistance and discounted labor? It's not like PS teachers are taking a pay cut or schools have quit wasting funds on the appearance of English for their "English Rooms".
Perhaps there is no work for us poor, disadvantaged foreigners outside of this great land of S.Korea. We must stay here because there are no other options?
I could understand an "it depends" answer for someone who is tied here by family or heritage.
It makes NO sense otherwise to take a pay cut for the simple reason of staying employed or staying in Korea. There ARE other options that are equally as valid and well paid for anyone who can qualify for an E2 in Korea.
. |
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