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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| Would you take a pay cut to remain employed in Korea |
| Yes |
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14% |
[ 8 ] |
| No |
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31% |
[ 17 ] |
| It depends |
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27% |
[ 15 ] |
| I don't know |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
| No way in heck!!! |
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14% |
[ 8 ] |
| I would work for free |
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7% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 54 |
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| Author |
Message |
kinship
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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 Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You mean I should take a pay cut so some place like CDI can rake in more cash at my expense? |
How is it at your expense? You agree to a salary that is all you are entitled to. How much money CDI or other hagwon makes is none of your business.
| Quote: |
It must be the ultimate destination for all people and they must all have some need to be here? It is the Nirvana of the world, a veritable Shangri-la.
NOT. |
You really shouldn't be so bitter, your sarcasm is showing.
| Quote: |
| I could understand an "it depends" answer for someone who is tied here by family or heritage. |
So for you, everything a person does has to have family ties? No one can like a country or its people just because they appeal to a westerner?
| Quote: |
| It makes NO sense otherwise to take a pay cut for the simple reason of staying employed or staying in Korea |
Sure it does. You just can't grasp the fact that some people like teaching in Korea, like Korean students and like being in the country. Not everyone is as mercenary as you.
| Quote: |
| There ARE other options that are equally as valid and well paid for anyone who can qualify for an E2 in Korea. |
Money isn't everything. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| kinship wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You mean I should take a pay cut so some place like CDI can rake in more cash at my expense? |
How is it at your expense? You agree to a salary that is all you are entitled to. How much money CDI or other hagwon makes is none of your business.
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If I have to take a pay cut then it is at my expense.
| kinship wrote: |
| Quote: |
It must be the ultimate destination for all people and they must all have some need to be here? It is the Nirvana of the world, a veritable Shangri-la.
NOT. |
You really shouldn't be so bitter, your sarcasm is showing.
| Quote: |
| I could understand an "it depends" answer for someone who is tied here by family or heritage. |
So for you, everything a person does has to have family ties? No one can like a country or its people just because they appeal to a westerner?
| Quote: |
| It makes NO sense otherwise to take a pay cut for the simple reason of staying employed or staying in Korea |
Sure it does. You just can't grasp the fact that some people like teaching in Korea, like Korean students and like being in the country. Not everyone is as mercenary as you.
| Quote: |
| There ARE other options that are equally as valid and well paid for anyone who can qualify for an E2 in Korea. |
Money isn't everything. |
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kinship
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| But you assume the idea that the hagwon is making more money with that pay cut and it is not done out of necessity. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| kinship wrote: |
| But you assume the idea that the hagwon is making more money with that pay cut and it is not done out of necessity. |
So somehow that makes it NOT at my expense?
Any why should I, as an employee (not a shareholder), bear the financial responsibility and risk for the success or failure of the business?
It is not like I will get a share of the profits, beyond my contracted salary, should the business be successful.
And yes, I honestly believe that the vast majority of EFL teachers in Korea are NOT here for the culture and kimchi.
I would hazard a guess that the majority are here simply for gainful employment and the chance to travel abroad for a few years. China, Japan, Thailand and Indonesia all offer as least as good a cultural experience as you will get in Korea.
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kinship
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| So somehow that makes it NOT at my expense? |
Maybe because you are using the phrase wrong
| Quote: |
4
: a loss, detriment, or embarrassment that results from some action or gain : sacrifice <everyone had a good laugh at my expense> �usually used in the phrase at the expense of <develop a boy's physique at the expense of his intelligence |
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expense
Being asked to take a pay cut does not mean something else is being done at your expense. it means that they can't afford to keep you at a higher salary and want to keep the business afloat so they do not lose the business.
Sometimes I wonder if you and many other westerners think about anyone but themselves.
| Quote: |
| Any why should I, as an employee (not a shareholder), bear the financial responsibility and risk for the success or failure of the business? |
That is such a selfish statement. You wouldn't be but it is better to be employed with a lower salary than unemployed with nothing coming in.
You may give good immigration advice but your other advice just helps bring more problems to the westerners in this country.
| Quote: |
| It is not like I will get a share of the profits, beyond my contracted salary, should the business be successful. |
Why should you share in the profits. Your attitude is terrible for the work place. It is all about you and your pocketbook. How sad as you forget that the Korean employer has bills to pay, rents to pay, mouths to feed.
| Quote: |
| And yes, I honestly believe that the vast majority of EFL teachers in Korea are NOT here for the culture and kimchi. |
I would agree with you and neither am I. I am here to teach not run a hagwon into the ground because my salary demands are outrageous. The culture and kimchi are just benefits to living here.
| Quote: |
| I would hazard a guess that the majority are here simply for gainful employment and the chance to travel abroad for a few years. China, Japan, Thailand and Indonesia all offer as least as good a cultural experience as you will get in Korea. |
Yes which is sad as the Korean students suffer for it. I am sure they do offer a good cultural experience but that has nothing to do with the question. Do I need to get a 2 x 4 to bang you up the side of the head to get you to understand that this is a simple question about a pay cut.
It is not a question where someone gets on their soap box and talks about the joys of options in other countries and their hatred for Korean hagwons.
I do not care about the options, I know they are there. This question is whether people would take a simple pay cut to work in Korea or not. it has nothing to do with Thailand and the better beaches there. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| kinship wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So somehow that makes it NOT at my expense? |
Maybe because you are using the phrase wrong
| Quote: |
4
: a loss, detriment, or embarrassment that results from some action or gain : sacrifice <everyone had a good laugh at my expense> �usually used in the phrase at the expense of <develop a boy's physique at the expense of his intelligence |
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expense
Being asked to take a pay cut does not mean something else is being done at your expense. it means that they can't afford to keep you at a higher salary and want to keep the business afloat so they do not lose the business.
Sometimes I wonder if you and many other westerners think about anyone but themselves.
| Quote: |
| Any why should I, as an employee (not a shareholder), bear the financial responsibility and risk for the success or failure of the business? |
That is such a selfish statement. You wouldn't be but it is better to be employed with a lower salary than unemployed with nothing coming in.
You may give good immigration advice but your other advice just helps bring more problems to the westerners in this country.
| Quote: |
| It is not like I will get a share of the profits, beyond my contracted salary, should the business be successful. |
Why should you share in the profits. Your attitude is terrible for the work place. It is all about you and your pocketbook. How sad as you forget that the Korean employer has bills to pay, rents to pay, mouths to feed.
| Quote: |
| And yes, I honestly believe that the vast majority of EFL teachers in Korea are NOT here for the culture and kimchi. |
I would agree with you and neither am I. I am here to teach not run a hagwon into the ground because my salary demands are outrageous. The culture and kimchi are just benefits to living here.
| Quote: |
| I would hazard a guess that the majority are here simply for gainful employment and the chance to travel abroad for a few years. China, Japan, Thailand and Indonesia all offer as least as good a cultural experience as you will get in Korea. |
Yes which is sad as the Korean students suffer for it. I am sure they do offer a good cultural experience but that has nothing to do with the question. Do I need to get a 2 x 4 to bang you up the side of the head to get you to understand that this is a simple question about a pay cut.
It is not a question where someone gets on their soap box and talks about the joys of options in other countries and their hatred for Korean hagwons.
I do not care about the options, I know they are there. This question is whether people would take a simple pay cut to work in Korea or not. it has nothing to do with Thailand and the better beaches there. |
All of this coming from a poster that is either
A: Currently not employed
or
B: Stealing from his employer
Which is it?
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Hugo85
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| I guess some people were thankful for minimal wage jobs back home. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| kinship wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So somehow that makes it NOT at my expense? |
Maybe because you are using the phrase wrong
| Quote: |
4
: a loss, detriment, or embarrassment that results from some action or gain : sacrifice <everyone had a good laugh at my expense> �usually used in the phrase at the expense of <develop a boy's physique at the expense of his intelligence |
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expense
Being asked to take a pay cut does not mean something else is being done at your expense. it means that they can't afford to keep you at a higher salary and want to keep the business afloat so they do not lose the business.
Sometimes I wonder if you and many other westerners think about anyone but themselves.
| Quote: |
| Any why should I, as an employee (not a shareholder), bear the financial responsibility and risk for the success or failure of the business? |
That is such a selfish statement. You wouldn't be but it is better to be employed with a lower salary than unemployed with nothing coming in.
You may give good immigration advice but your other advice just helps bring more problems to the westerners in this country.
| Quote: |
| It is not like I will get a share of the profits, beyond my contracted salary, should the business be successful. |
Why should you share in the profits. Your attitude is terrible for the work place. It is all about you and your pocketbook. How sad as you forget that the Korean employer has bills to pay, rents to pay, mouths to feed.
| Quote: |
| And yes, I honestly believe that the vast majority of EFL teachers in Korea are NOT here for the culture and kimchi. |
I would agree with you and neither am I. I am here to teach not run a hagwon into the ground because my salary demands are outrageous. The culture and kimchi are just benefits to living here.
| Quote: |
| I would hazard a guess that the majority are here simply for gainful employment and the chance to travel abroad for a few years. China, Japan, Thailand and Indonesia all offer as least as good a cultural experience as you will get in Korea. |
Yes which is sad as the Korean students suffer for it. I am sure they do offer a good cultural experience but that has nothing to do with the question. Do I need to get a 2 x 4 to bang you up the side of the head to get you to understand that this is a simple question about a pay cut.
It is not a question where someone gets on their soap box and talks about the joys of options in other countries and their hatred for Korean hagwons.
I do not care about the options, I know they are there. This question is whether people would take a simple pay cut to work in Korea or not. it has nothing to do with Thailand and the better beaches there. |
If I am bearing the cost or part of the cost then it is literally at my expense... I am paying for it.
Assisting the owner in a financial manner is NOT my duty as an employee.
I work for a wage. I perform the tasks expected of the job as outlined in the job description.
I bear no loss or gain in the business therefor I should bear no financial risk either.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is either foolish, a tout for a hagwon or a dodgy hagwon owner.
The matter is CLEARLY spelled out in the various codes and acts under the umbrella of the labor standards acts. It is not open to a liberal interpretation by some hagwon owner, their flunky, their tout or a reborn, previously banned internet troll.
If some business is being run into the ground it is not usually because of the unfair demands of the "foreign teacher". I would look a lot closer to the usual run of bad business practices and very poor marketing by your average hagwon.
I don't believe that your average hagwon student suffers because the teacher is here for a job and expects to be paid for his time, effort and energy. Foreigners, with perhaps the exception of yourself, don't come here with the intent to do a bad job. It is usually the intransigence of the employer to blame.
When Korean teachers start accepting cuts in pay and benefits simply to stay employed (contrary to the labor standards acts) then you can talk to me.
And yes, it has everything to do with the beaches in Thailand.
Work at a Korean hagwan, put up with Korean bosses and their touts for 2.0m krw / month.
Work in Thailand, enjoy tropical weather, have 1/2 the cost of living and get 6 weeks (instead of 10 days) of paid vacation for 1.65m krw / month.
(in both cases you can still save 1.0m krw / month
How bout 2.0m krw at a job in Taiwan teaching 20 classes per week?
2000 usd goes a LONG way in Vietnam for your 30 classes per week.
Not hard for your average hagwon worker to figure that one out.
Take a pay cut to work at a Korean hagwon... hell no. Too many other comparable options and no good reason for your average hagwon worker to stay.
If you feel the need
| kinship wrote: |
| "to get a 2 x 4 to bang you up the side of the head" |
to push the discussion your way.... well... at least we understand your style of management and why you think pay cuts may be justified.
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Tom, my soon-to-be-former boss has become a good friend. Had she needed me to take a cut, I'd have done it, because she'd have given me legal permission for a second job, and would have given me reduced hours (from my already nice schedule of 2-7:30.) Taking a cut doesn't always make one a patsy.
Like I said: I'm taking a new job that will pay me a bit less than my current one, but I'll be working a fantastic schedule and will have 5 months of paid vacation. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:36 am Post subject: |
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^^ Apples and oranges. You are getting compensation for the reduction in wage. The question and what Tom was relpying to was a hypothetical reduction in wage for the same work.
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:14 am Post subject: |
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I think once you have been here for a couple of years and experienced the expat life, you should be moving on anyways.
If I lived here a couple of years and my pay was getting reduced, I would leave Korea. It's not worth it culturally or monetarily. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
Tom, my soon-to-be-former boss has become a good friend. Had she needed me to take a cut, I'd have done it, because she'd have given me legal permission for a second job, and would have given me reduced hours (from my already nice schedule of 2-7:30.) Taking a cut doesn't always make one a patsy.
Like I said: I'm taking a new job that will pay me a bit less than my current one, but I'll be working a fantastic schedule and will have 5 months of paid vacation. |
And therein lies the previous mentioned exceptions:
Tied to Korea by family and the need to make it work HERE.
Other compensations for your reduction in salary.
The original question has 2 parts:
would you accept/take a cut in pay to remain in Korea and that 2nd part is the kicker.
Would/should people take a cut in pay (by the further posting of the OP seems to have been the information he was looking for) and the answer would largely depend on personal circumstances and other options offered by the employer.
Would/should they do it simply to stay in Korea would depend on DIFFERENT circumstances and unless there was some mitigating factor like family ties would make no sense seeing as how there ARE other decent options available.
The OP then accused me of bias against hagwons (my bias is against unscrupulous employers regardless of the industry and not just dodgy hagwons).
He then suggested that I somehow hate Korea because I suggested that there are other cultures/countries that are equal to or superior to the "Korean experience".
I simply suggested that the Korean hagwon experience may not be the pinnacle of international employment in EFL and keeping a job in one would, for a significant portion of the employees in the EFL industry, not be worth taking a pay cut.
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone who takes a pay cut to stick at a dead end job is probably going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel wherever they end up. Ethics issues aside, most hagwon owners have no business being anywhere near the business of education or business in general. Has the troll had his fill yet? |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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edited and removed due to not feeding those from Three Billy Goats Gruff....wth was I thinking posting on this?
Last edited by byrddogs on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Fair enough. |
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