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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:10 am Post subject: |
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I will say that 1000$ in Busan (with comparable lifestyles) will go as far as it will in Toronto.
If you factor in income taxes and other expenses then the game is up.
Typically in Busan a teacher gets rent-free housing (only pays utilities). A single teacher living in Busan would not need a car as public transit is outstanding and cabs are pretty affordable. Technically the difference then becomes the amount of disposable income the person has which again depends on lifestyle choices! |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| Would you concede that someone living on $1,000 per month will live better in Korea (particularly Seoul) than someone living on $1,000 per month in most of the native English speaking countries (particularly cities comparable to Seoul)? |
Well London's officially the most expensive city in the world now I think, so yes to that, but I personally think that I could make 1,000 dollars go further in Manchester or Birmingham, Especially nowadays with all the everything for a pound shops and recession beating deals at supermarkets |
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Tokyo and Osaka are the world's two most expensive cities in which to live, and Seoul ranks 37th, according to the Worldwide Cost of Living Index survey released by the Economist Intelligence Unit. |
Link: http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/02/07/2013020700930.html |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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busanliving
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Bottom line is I make the same here as in the UK in terms of the amount of money going into my account each month. In the UK I led a comfortable life but was definitely conscious of what money I spent, made own lunches for work, would only eat out occasionally, avoided taxis etc. at the end of the month I would have nothing left to clear debts.
Here I live with a partner which does make things a bit cheaper, but between us we save one wage packet a month. We went on 4 trips abroad last year, eat out several times a week, have a weekend away once a month and usually 2 big nights out a week.
Basically I live on half what I did in the UK but have a lot more social time for it. |
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busanliving
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Bottom line is I make the same here as in the UK in terms of the amount of money going into my account each month. In the UK I led a comfortable life but was definitely conscious of what money I spent, made own lunches for work, would only eat out occasionally, avoided taxis etc. at the end of the month I would have nothing left to clear debts.
Here I live with a partner which does make things a bit cheaper, but between us we save one wage packet a month. We went on 4 trips abroad last year, eat out several times a week, have a weekend away once a month and usually 2 big nights out a week.
Basically I live on half what I did in the UK but have a lot more social time for it. |
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Threequalseven
Joined: 08 May 2012
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
Never been to Canada or the US so I'll take your word for it. If you're going along those lines, you could also argue that Korea is very expensive to get out of for vacations or trips home so that adds costs that you wouldn't incur if you stayed in Canada. I can't really see the difference in arguments. As for the small apartment yes I would argue that it's an invalid point. You wouldn't say for example that the UK is a much cheaper place to live than France if you lived in a one bed studio in the UK and a chateau in France.
The saving thing's been done to death and I accept that the lifestyle most people chose here means they can save more money than in their own countries but that doesn't mean the cost of living is lower here. Like I said before you'd have to live identical lifestyles to prove that point. |
I was going to argue about vacation costs, free flights home, and so on. But it seems that your main point is that people come to Korea and live more frugal lifestyles, so that's why they're able to save more than at home. But again, you're not factoring some key differences. First, you couldn't possibly live the exact same lifestyle in Korea as in America, because the built environments in each country are so different. For example, Korea doesn't have things like suburbs, so there aren't people driving 40 miles to work and back everyday. Second, cost of living encompasses everything you spend money on, not just disposable income. You can't just gloss over the free housing and cheap transport. Those are normally huge expenses for most people.
That said, my lifestyle is basically unchanged since moving here. I didn't come to Korea and suddenly become more stingy. At home I drove or biked a couple miles to work everyday; in Korea I take a taxi or bike. At home I would have a couple beers each night and go out once or twice a week; same in Korea (and no I don't drink Cass or Shite). At home I would get a cheap $5-8 bite to eat a few times a week, same in Korea. Really, by any measure I can think of, I have made no significant changes to my lifestyle. Yet at home, making nearly the same amount of money, I could maybe save a couple hundred dollars each month if I really tried. Here, I don't try at all, and I can still send home over $1000 each month.
To be fair, if you're simply referring to the cost of goods and food (a fraction of people's total expenses), then yes Korea is quite similar to America or Canada. But to claim that it all boils down to lifestyle, and the only way to prove otherwise is to live exactly the same lifestyle in Korea as you did at home is a continuum fallacy. Basically, your argument can't be proven wrong because it's nearly impossible to meet your criteria of having precisely the same lifestyle as back home. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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How many in this thread have a family here? Own a house in the burbs? Are paying for schooling?
I have to say, living in my little officeTell as a single guy, Korea seemed much cheaper. But actually living here long term, and not feeding my family Kimbapjungguk every day, I don't really feel that Korea is all that cheap.
In fact, the only things I'd confidently say are cheaper are Internet and Public Transit. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
How many in this thread have a family here? Own a house in the burbs? Are paying for schooling?
I have to say, living in my little officeTell as a single guy, Korea seemed much cheaper. But actually living here long term, and not feeding my family Kimbapjungguk every day, I don't really feel that Korea is all that cheap.
In fact, the only things I'd confidently say are cheaper are Internet and Public Transit. |
Compared to America, family health care is wildly less expensive. |
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oppa637
Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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You obviously can't compare lifestyles but I think one should consider the possibilities more.
Can you get free housing in the USA, maybe but not likely. So you pay rent, which I believe is maybe 600USD. This amount which you don't have to pay with most teaching jobs here I believe. Thats not a small sum.
Yes, if you want to have the same lifestyle, you could buy a car. Then the cost of having one in the US or here are relatively the same. But do you have the option of not having a car in the US? In certain areas, yes, but most, no. Here in Seoul, a car is not a necessity at all. So you save in car payments ($400), Insurance ($100), and gas ($100).
So having the option on saving $1200 off the back, well, I'm pretty sure thats why one can save here. Food cost and essential living cost will be practically the same as the USA so when one says they can send 1k USD home, pretty sure its because of the above.
But to try to compare lifestyles, yes, my place here will be much smaller but I'm not hungry, I have a roof, and its not like I'm lacking anything else here such as technology or anything. |
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JustinC
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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In the bigger cities in the UK you might not need a car, but unless you live in a crappy city then the rent on your apartment will be very high. I've done both and even when in a nice apartment in a crappy city you miss having a car to get out of the crappy city. I've lived out of town in a nice house in a nice area and then not having a car is a real PITA.
Rent/mortgage have been $600-1100 (each person).
Car payments and servicing and petrol is approx $400/month (each as you work in different places / at different times)
Tax is around 30% so on 2.1M you're paying 0.63M won or $580.
Food is the same as here, beer is cheaper. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| oppa637 wrote: |
Yes, if you want to have the same lifestyle, you could buy a car. Then the cost of having one in the US or here are relatively the same. But do you have the option of not having a car in the US? In certain areas, yes, but most, no. Here in Seoul, a car is not a necessity at all. So you save in car payments ($400), Insurance ($100), and gas ($100). |
I'd say it's more expensive to have a car in Korea than in the US. For one, the cars themselves are more expensive. An Audi A4 costs about $37,000 in the US. In Korea, it costs almost 50 million won, a difference of more than $10,000. Gas is much more expensive, as well, typically $7 or $8 a gallon. Repairs are more costly, too. I got an oil change the other week and it cost 70,000 won. I haven't been to the US for a while, but I doubt oil changes usually run more than $40 or $50. Insurance prices are similar, I suppose, but in the case of an accident, even one that is not your fault, you'd probably have to pay more money than you would in the US.
In short, if you live in Korea as a typical newbie English teacher, staying in the school provided one-room apartment, eating at kimbabchunguk, going out to cheap hofs and foreigner bars a few times a week, and vacationing in Thailand, your cost of living will probably be cheaper than in the West.
However, if you are married or have a family and want to live in a good sized apartment (at least 600 square feet) in a decent neighborhood, drive a car, and eat decent meals at proper restaurants, the cost of living would be as much or more than in the West.
In my case, I have a 1,000 square foot apartment with three bedrooms and two bathrooms in the middle of Seoul. I pay 1.5 million won a month in rent. The bills for the apartment are generally 150,000 to 300,000 won a month. My car payments are 650,000 won a month. I spend about 250,000 a month on gasoline. My meals cost at least 10,000 each, and that would be a cheap meal. More generally I spend between 15,000 and 40,000 won per meal. In total, I spend about 600,000 won a month eating out and another 300,000 on groceries. So just my basic bills are about 3.5 million a month. Is that so cheap compared to the West for a similar "middle class" lifestyle? I doubt it. |
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oppa637
Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| Why compare audi's. If you are comparing price of cars, entry level cars range from 15-20k USD. Same as the states. Oil changes vary pending which car you purchase. Gas is more expensive though. I believe maintance on domestic cars here is cheap though. |
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PREEST
Joined: 20 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:48 am Post subject: |
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I think it would be better to reserve your judgements until you actually have lived in Korea. You get a free apartment to live in and the only bills you end up paying are internet, phone and a tiny electricity bill. Korea is unbelievably cheap and easy on the pocket. Think about it bro, making this money combined with all the bills and rent etc you have in Canada? You'll be left with jack all.
I can spend and spend in Korea and still have sooo much left over. If you want to save, Korea is a great place to do so.
You make it sound like we don't even make enough to survive.. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Like you said, going to Korea is not just about the $$ its a real experience to be had~ |
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newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:46 am Post subject: |
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Everything should be in past tense.
It was better a few years ago for most FT's working in Korea to save and enjoy strange new life. As number of applicants grow each and every year, the salary cap is shrinking and benefits diminishing. I've decided to retire after my fifth and final year at my school and hang-up my hat from teaching EFL.
End of this final year, I'm going to be sipping on a glass of cocktail on my beach front property reminiscing the great years in Korea. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:17 am Post subject: |
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In the bigger cities in the UK you might not need a car, but unless you live in a crappy city then the rent on your apartment will be very high. I've done both and even when in a nice apartment in a crappy city you miss having a car to get out of the crappy city. I've lived out of town in a nice house in a nice area and then not having a car is a real PITA.
Rent/mortgage have been $600-1100 (each person).
Car payments and servicing and petrol is approx $400/month (each as you work in different places / at different times)
Tax is around 30% so on 2.1M you're paying 0.63M won or $580.
Food is the same as here, beer is cheaper. |
As has been said many times here before your 'free apartment' is part of your salary and income tax is not an indicator of the cost of living. When people compare salaries in different countries they don't want to know what they are before tax do they as that would be pretty irrelevant. I'd say yoiur basic food stuffs are cheaper in supermarkets in the UK and decent beer is definitely cheaper (in supermarkets) As for draught Cass and the like in Hofs, well you get what you pay for. Less than a pint of London pride in Itaewon was 10,000 won (5 pounds eighty seven) last time I went |
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