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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I kind of agree with what he said about foreigners trying to learn Korean here but I think he'll have his work cut out trying to save traditional Korean culture like the Hanok. It's going the same way Ireland did in the eighties when they got rid of all their one storey traditional thatched huts and replaced them with huge bungalows with Spanish arches. They didn't like the reminder of how poor they used to be. The Irish also let some beautiful 18th and 19th century country houses fall apart because they were ashamed of their colonial past.
Then they wonder why tourists don't want to visit so often. As for the clothes and music, they're just outdated and belong in folk museums now, just like Morris dancing or people wearing ruffs. Why would anyone seriously worry about modern youth not keeping up customs like those? It's just progress. The guy says he's interested in Korean traditional music but do we really believe he listens to it on his ipod on the subway? |
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IlIlNine
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:47 am Post subject: |
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If you have a passing interest in the culture, relationships with the natives around you, and/or your work and career, you should be learning Korean at a rate proportional to your length of stay. How much each person should learn depends on an individual's personal situation, but, personally - I've never been disadvantaged by knowing too much - and a lot of of my success here can be directly attributed to my knowledge of the local language.
Now, you may not be at all interested in any of that. If that is indeed the case than feel free to ignore the above. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:47 am Post subject: |
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If you have a passing interest in the culture, relationships with the natives around you, and/or your work and career, you should be learning Korean at a rate proportional to your length of stay. How much each person should learn depends on an individual's personal situation, but, personally - I've never been disadvantaged by knowing too much - and a lot of of my success here can be directly attributed to my knowledge of the local language.
Now, you may not be at all interested in any of that. If that is indeed the case than feel free to ignore the above. |
Without knowing exactly what your 'success here' comprises, it's pretty difficult to have an opinion one way or another. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| IlIlNine wrote: |
If you have a passing interest in the culture, relationships with the natives around you, and/or your work and career, you should be learning Korean at a rate proportional to your length of stay. How much each person should learn depends on an individual's personal situation, but, personally - I've never been disadvantaged by knowing too much - and a lot of of my success here can be directly attributed to my knowledge of the local language.
Now, you may not be at all interested in any of that. If that is indeed the case than feel free to ignore the above. |
Could not agree more with this.
I think learning Korean can only be beneficial to anyone living in Korea but that is my personal view. I completely understand why some people would choose not to learn as there are many valid reasons. This is not some hard rule but rather a choice everyone must make.
I found knowing Korean, even at the intermediate level, was such a great asset in Korea from a personal and professional stand point. It provided linguistic automony, expanded my experience in Korea and led to a far better understanding of why things happened a certain way. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| Not should as in "you should brush your teeth three times a day" but should as in "you shouldn't spend considerably more money than you earn." Its a practical necessity. |
Is that practical necessity as in,
'What, you're going to Amsterdam for 5 weeks and you don't know any Dutch? You won't last a day!'
Or "you're going to Stockholm for a month? You'd better start learning Swedish for 20 minutes a day right now or you'll have real problems being able to do anything at all there. It's a practical necessity.  |
I don't envy the position you've taken on this thread, no matter how clever you think you are.
Live in a place, respect the lingua franca. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't envy the position you've taken on this thread, |
My position on this thread is when you say learning the local language is 'a practical necessity' in any country you stay in for more than four weeks you are quite simply talking bollocks. And I challenge you to prove otherwise.
I'd also suggest you brush up on your own language skills before preaching at people to learn others since I'm pretty sure you don't know the meaning of 'lingua franca.' In many countries, like the Philippines, for example, the lingua franca is English, which I respect a great deal.
Last edited by edwardcatflap on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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IlIlNine
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
If you have a passing interest in the culture, relationships with the natives around you, and/or your work and career, you should be learning Korean at a rate proportional to your length of stay. How much each person should learn depends on an individual's personal situation, but, personally - I've never been disadvantaged by knowing too much - and a lot of of my success here can be directly attributed to my knowledge of the local language.
Now, you may not be at all interested in any of that. If that is indeed the case than feel free to ignore the above. |
Without knowing exactly what your 'success here' comprises, it's pretty difficult to have an opinion one way or another. |
Well, my undergrad was in Computer Science. After a stint teaching English I enrolled in grad school, graduated with my doctorate and now do global business development at one of the big companies here. I've recently been offered a placement in the states with the same company, complete with all the expat trimmings.
Meanwhile all the E2s are looking for an exit plan.
Obviously not everyone's into the tech industry, but it is indeed possible to move on and out from ESL - if that's what you aspire to do. The key though - and this is absolutely key - is Korean ability. There's really no way around it.
Again - not everyone's cup of tea - I understand that - to each their own - but I'm quite happy with how things turend out. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| I don't envy the position you've taken on this thread, |
My position on this thread is when you say learning the local language is 'a practical necessity' in any country you stay in for more than four weeks you are quite simply talking bollocks. And I challenge you to prove otherwise.
I'd also suggest you brush up on your own language skills before preaching at people to learn others since I'm pretty sure you don't know the meaning of 'lingua franca.' In many countries, like the Philippines, for example, the lingua franca is English, which I respect a great deal. |
You're right, I used the word lingua franca wrong. I must be wrong about everything else.
Not so.
I think you've reached the point where you're past being convinced and have instead dug in your heels, your position having been staked out. You may believe that its possible to live in a place where you don't make *any* effort to learn the local language, but its an incredible handicap. Tossing out examples of extremely cosmopolitan or English-friendly-non-native-English cities won't help your proposition: its incredibly debilitating to live in a place where the dominant language around you remains foreign and incomprehensible. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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You're right, I used the word lingua franca wrong. I must be wrong about everything else.
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Ironically by using 'lingua franca' you were actually countering your own argument since in countries where the 'lingua franca' is English such as the Philippines or India, it ensures that learning one of the many local languages is not a practical necessity. As I said before my position is simple. I don't agree that in all countries learning a local language is a 'practical necessity' see above, nor do I believe people 'must' learn one as you said previously. Tossing out examples of extremely cosmopolitan or English-friendly-non-native-English cities makes my point entirely as it proves what what you said to be inaccurate. If you'd ever stayed in Stockholm or Amsterdam for any length of time you would know this |
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I-am-me
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Hermit Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Besides the basics....NO! Its a waste of time and Koreans will still not understand you. Been there, done that. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I-am-me wrote: |
| Its a waste of time and Koreans will still not understand you. |
They seem to understand me. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| There is only one true lingua franca, though in the digital age, we may soon have others (html, C++, etc.)- Mathematics. |
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drcrazy
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| No. |
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| IlIlNine wrote: |
Well, my undergrad was in Computer Science. After a stint teaching English I enrolled in grad school, graduated with my doctorate and now do global business development at one of the big companies here. I've recently been offered a placement in the states with the same company, complete with all the expat trimmings.
Meanwhile all the E2s are looking for an exit plan.
Obviously not everyone's into the tech industry, but it is indeed possible to move on and out from ESL - if that's what you aspire to do. The key though - and this is absolutely key - is Korean ability. There's really no way around it.
Again - not everyone's cup of tea - I understand that - to each their own - but I'm quite happy with how things turend out. |
I also attribute the opportunity I had to move back to Korea and work for a major bank there (with all the expat trimmings) largely to the fact that I had put a lot of effort into learning the language while I was teaching there. I've since moved on to other work in finance/consulting, but had I not learned the language it's very likely I never would have gotten my foot in the door in that industry, at least not in the way that I did (which has worked out great for me).
I won't say that it makes sense for everyone to put the effort into learning Korean, but you will have significantly more opportunities if you can speak Korean than if you can't, particularly if you want to move on from ESL to business or whatever.
And it's not true that "the natives won't understand you" if you actually learn to speak the language. I have had very few instances where there were comprehension-related difficulties, and it was mostly with semi-deaf taxi drivers. Whenever I visit Japan or China I can't fathom what it would be like to actually live in a country where you're completely illiterate. |
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spaceman82
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| nate1983 wrote: |
I also attribute the opportunity I had to move back to Korea and work for a major bank there (with all the expat trimmings) largely to the fact that I had put a lot of effort into learning the language while I was teaching there. I've since moved on to other work in finance/consulting, but had I not learned the language it's very likely I never would have gotten my foot in the door in that industry, at least not in the way that I did (which has worked out great for me).
I won't say that it makes sense for everyone to put the effort into learning Korean, but you will have significantly more opportunities if you can speak Korean than if you can't, particularly if you want to move on from ESL to business or whatever.
And it's not true that "the natives won't understand you" if you actually learn to speak the language. I have had very few instances where there were comprehension-related difficulties, and it was mostly with semi-deaf taxi drivers. Whenever I visit Japan or China I can't fathom what it would be like to actually live in a country where you're completely illiterate. |
Can I ask how you went about making this transition and what you did to set yourself apart as an applicant (other than your Korean language studies)? Did you have a related undergrad major, go to grad school, etc.? |
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