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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
What amazes me about the hagwon system is how many people have no clue how to run a business. |
There should be a law that any hakwon manager must have at least stepped inside a classroom before. Basic knowledge of the language they purport to teach would also be a plus. |
Being a teacher does not make a good manager. Being a good manager does not make a good teacher.
I disagree that a hakwon manager needs to have stepped inside a classroom. He needs to be a good manager. That means he needs to have someone on his staff who has experience in the classroom advise him.
There's a saying, "The manager doesn't flip the burgers". |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
What amazes me about the hagwon system is how many people have no clue how to run a business. |
There should be a law that any hakwon manager must have at least stepped inside a classroom before. Basic knowledge of the language they purport to teach would also be a plus. |
Being a teacher does not make a good manager. Being a good manager does not make a good teacher.
I disagree that a hakwon manager needs to have stepped inside a classroom. He needs to be a good manager. That means he needs to have someone on his staff who has experience in the classroom advise him.
There's a saying, "The manager doesn't flip the burgers". |
+1
A hogwan run by a good business manager who doesn't know how to teach can and probably will succeed.
A hogwan run by a great teacher who doesn't know how to manage a business will probably fail.
The best hogwan will have a management team that includes all the necessary teaching and business management skills. Even if one person has all the necessary skills and knowledge, that person is unlikely to have the time to fulfill all the functions. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| crescent wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
Just the poorly managed/ poorly run hagwans.
If a hagwon/chain is just scraping by, they are doing something wrong,
either over-extending themselves or not focusing on important things.
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Absolutely false. Your evidence may apply to your experience but not to what has been happening in the industry.
Things are not as bad now as they were about 1-2 years ago, but the industry is not growing. |
So you are saying that hagwons are failing in vast numbers then?
Perhaps all the F visa guys teaching private lessons is having an effect,
or perhaps Koreans are realizing that they have been wasting large sums
on English lessons. Or perhaps it's the after school programs cutting into
the hagwon market?
Whatever the causes, the hagwon industry has been oversaturated for quite a while and it's about time for another IMF. |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
So you are saying that hagwons are failing in vast numbers then?
Perhaps all the F visa guys teaching private lessons is having an effect,
or perhaps Koreans are realizing that they have been wasting large sums
on English lessons. Or perhaps it's the after school programs cutting into
the hagwon market?
Whatever the causes, the hagwon industry has been oversaturated for quite a while and it's about time for another IMF. |
Apparently, the worst is over. Two-three years ago, there was major industry wide contraction. According to the media, and industry sources I know, a new balance is forming.
Everything you mentioned above plays a role in what is taking shape. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
What amazes me about the hagwon system is how many people have no clue how to run a business. |
There should be a law that any hakwon manager must have at least stepped inside a classroom before. Basic knowledge of the language they purport to teach would also be a plus. |
Being a teacher does not make a good manager. Being a good manager does not make a good teacher.
I disagree that a hakwon manager needs to have stepped inside a classroom. He needs to be a good manager. That means he needs to have someone on his staff who has experience in the classroom advise him.
There's a saying, "The manager doesn't flip the burgers". |
+1
A hogwan run by a good business manager who doesn't know how to teach can and probably will succeed.
A hogwan run by a great teacher who doesn't know how to manage a business will probably fail.
The best hogwan will have a management team that includes all the necessary teaching and business management skills. Even if one person has all the necessary skills and knowledge, that person is unlikely to have the time to fulfill all the functions. |
I've worked for a lot of managers in Korea.
The best one- by far- also happened to be the only one who actually regularly taught classes.
Western-style managers are expected to have worked at all levels of the industry to qualify for the top.
The problem is that Korean hagwons are viewed the same way as restaurants are in the west. ie anyone with a bit of money can start one and retire on it. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Good for you.
The manager/owner I spoke of DID regularly teach classes, and was
fluent in English. (as did his wife)
He admitted that he was a lousy teacher though.
He would have been fine if he had kept his massive ego in check,
but he had fantasies of making it BIG within 2 years.
He treated everyone like garbage, Koreans and waygookins alike.
He micro- managed us up the yang until no one could stand to work
for him.
He also refused to believe that perhaps we might know a little bit more than he did about books, students, teaching techniques etc. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
What amazes me about the hagwon system is how many people have no clue how to run a business. |
There should be a law that any hakwon manager must have at least stepped inside a classroom before. Basic knowledge of the language they purport to teach would also be a plus. |
Being a teacher does not make a good manager. Being a good manager does not make a good teacher.
I disagree that a hakwon manager needs to have stepped inside a classroom. He needs to be a good manager. That means he needs to have someone on his staff who has experience in the classroom advise him.
There's a saying, "The manager doesn't flip the burgers". |
+1
A hogwan run by a good business manager who doesn't know how to teach can and probably will succeed.
A hogwan run by a great teacher who doesn't know how to manage a business will probably fail.
The best hogwan will have a management team that includes all the necessary teaching and business management skills. Even if one person has all the necessary skills and knowledge, that person is unlikely to have the time to fulfill all the functions. |
I've worked for a lot of managers in Korea.
The best one- by far- also happened to be the only one who actually regularly taught classes. |
Unless they have management skills they will eventually fail.
I've seen numerous hogwans managed by individuals who were primarily teachers that have failed. There needs to be someone with management skills who is not teaching. Of course, the tiny one or two teacher school is so small that there is little management to do, so they can survive while teaching since serious problems are less likely to appear. They are also more likely to fail if any problem appears.
| Julius wrote: |
Western-style managers are expected to have worked at all levels of the industry to qualify for the top. |
Sorry, but this is just not true. Some firms try to move some management trainees around through various departments, yet these rarely rise to the very top. Most top execs come up through a single facet or function area where they are the best and rise quickly. They are able to then develop the overall management skills they will need to sit at the top. They apply their general management expertise to managing at the higher levels where people management skills, corporate issues and legal issues predominate and where wisdom and creative intelligence are important, but the need for specific skills in most areas of the business are not necessary.
| Julius wrote: |
The problem is that Korean hagwons are viewed the same way as restaurants are in the west. ie anyone with a bit of money can start one and retire on it. |
Some people do think that starting a hogwan is a good way to make a lot of money - which shows they don't have what it takes to run one.
I suppose some people in think the same way about restaurants, but I've never met them. Most think that a restaurant is a good way to make a decent living, be their own boss and do something where they can make a living and succeed through hard work more than being highly skilled or educated. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
The problems came about because the guy was just an incompetant, selfish, know-it-all.
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I think you described just about everyone who runs a small business. There's a reason their business is, well, still small despite having been at it forever. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
The problems came about because the guy was just an incompetant, selfish, know-it-all.
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I think you described just about everyone who runs a small business. There's a reason their business is, well, still small despite having been at it forever. |
And these reasons couldn't be something like (a) limited cash flow or (b) lack of desire to expand, (c) inability to find good staff, (d) a niche (hence limited) market...
There are many reasons why a business stays small. As for incompetence... Most incompetent people eventually go out of business and somebody else takes it over. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
The problems came about because the guy was just an incompetant, selfish, know-it-all.
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I think you described just about everyone who runs a small business. There's a reason their business is, well, still small despite having been at it forever. |
And these reasons couldn't be something like (a) limited cash flow or (b) lack of desire to expand, (c) inability to find good staff, (d) a niche (hence limited) market...
There are many reasons why a business stays small. As for incompetence... Most incompetent people eventually go out of business and somebody else takes it over. |
It could very well be those reasons. I never said it was the ONLY reason. BTW, a, c, and d all fall under the "incompetent" umbrella most of the time. Niche businesses do very well if you target the right one at the right location in the right way. |
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daz1979
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Location: Gangwon-Do
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Like others have stated, it depends on the hagwon and their expenses.
The area plays an important factor. I can rent a building here with 5,000,000 key money and around 400,000 a month. If I charge 150,000 per child, my rent is covered in 3 kids. A school in a larger city will have to pay upto 5,000,000 per month for rent. Maybe they can charge more, but the fact is, their initial overheads are higher and I would guess that competition is much fiercer 
So, the guy who has 50 - 60 kids and said his boss is happy enough... I'm sure he is He's taking at least 15 - 16 mil a month prior to tax. Then he has 2 p/t teachers that will cost no more than 2-3 mil to employ and his foreigner that costs a little over 2 mil & the foreigners rent. Leaving 10-11 mil for bus if its running, rent, marketing output and bills. Prior to tax..
Not too shabby....
Of course there will be other costs, but basic figures are decent. |
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