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Styles
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coratheexplorer



Joined: 16 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Styles Reply with quote

Was it always in fashion to express extreme negativity towards the U.S.A. (in other words, to illogically and unfoundedly hate us) or is this a recent trend?

I can't believe it was always this way. And also I don't know how any thinking person can feel good about being here. No offense intended, GOD BLESS you if you have found a way to make this situation work for you. I mean that. I personally just have realized that in so many ways it is a fundamentally impossible situation. We are essentially set up to fail here in my view..

Yes I am venting. Oh Lordy do I need to vent.
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flash viego



Joined: 20 Jan 2013

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened?
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Burndog



Joined: 17 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This requires more context.

Without context...my advice would be to simply ignore these people who dislike your homeland.
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Styles Reply with quote

coratheexplorer wrote:
Was it always in fashion to express extreme negativity towards the U.S.A. (in other words, to illogically and unfoundedly hate us) or is this a recent trend?

I can't believe it was always this way. And also I don't know how any thinking person can feel good about being here. No offense intended, GOD BLESS you if you have found a way to make this situation work for you. I mean that. I personally just have realized that in so many ways it is a fundamentally impossible situation. We are essentially set up to fail here in my view..

Yes I am venting. Oh Lordy do I need to vent.


Not sure if it was always in fashion but it is certainly not new.

I am also not convinced that it is necessarily unfounded. American foreign policy does a lot to convince people that America is not their friend but simply the biggest bully on the block.

A significant wave of anti-American sentiment allowed Roh Moo-hyun to win the presidential election in 2002.
It was a significant factor in the anti-US-beef protests and riots in 2008.
The SOFA has been a bone of contention that often raises its head and has been so for a long time.

Anti-Americanism is pretty much an international sport worthy of placement in the Olympics due to its international popularity, widespread practice and global acceptance.

It is also worthy of note that that attitude is mixed; American music, movies and pop-culture are also very popular and widely emulated on a global basis.

Anti Americanism is also not unique to S.Korea.
Japan has similar bi-polar views; especially in places where there is a large American military presence.
The same is also true elsewhere (look at the anti-American protests in Thailand last year).

.
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coratheexplorer



Joined: 16 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flash viego wrote:
What happened?


A lot of things happened. But to sum it up, just unlucky to have a pair of particularly nefarious co-teachers? Though not even that beyond the pale from what I have gathered.

Besides that it is just too alienating here. It's a nice country (but we-- the US-- built it of course. Yes, I said it). But the groupthink is overwhelming. I see now why so many of them commit suicide. They are not allowed to be human beings.

Anyways I have resigned. Took a fight to get my resignation accepted however. Lord only knows what awaits me in these last weeks.
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coratheexplorer



Joined: 16 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Styles Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
coratheexplorer wrote:
Was it always in fashion to express extreme negativity towards the U.S.A. (in other words, to illogically and unfoundedly hate us) or is this a recent trend?

I can't believe it was always this way. And also I don't know how any thinking person can feel good about being here. No offense intended, GOD BLESS you if you have found a way to make this situation work for you. I mean that. I personally just have realized that in so many ways it is a fundamentally impossible situation. We are essentially set up to fail here in my view..

Yes I am venting. Oh Lordy do I need to vent.


Not sure if it was always in fashion but it is certainly not new.

I am also not convinced that it is necessarily unfounded. American foreign policy does a lot to convince people that America is not their friend but simply the biggest bully on the block.

A significant wave of anti-American sentiment allowed Roh Moo-hyun to win the presidential election in 2002.
It was a significant factor in the anti-US-beef protests and riots in 2008.
The SOFA has been a bone of contention that often raises its head and has been so for a long time.

Anti-Americanism is pretty much an international sport worthy of placement in the Olympics due to its international popularity, widespread practice and global acceptance.

It is also worthy of note that that attitude is mixed; American music, movies and pop-culture are also very popular and widely emulated on a global basis.

Anti Americanism is also not unique to S.Korea.
Japan has similar bi-polar views; especially in places where there is a large American military presence.
The same is also true elsewhere (look at the anti-American protests in Thailand last year).

.


Good points ttompatz and thanks for responding. (thanks to everyone else too Smile

What I mean is that there is a deliberate lack of recall when it comes to the fact that we, pardon my French, saved their a**es. We all know what this place would look like if the US hadn't done what it did back in the 50s. The intentions were not purely altruistic no, but that's not the point.

For that reason it's very different from Japan (whose anti-Americanism to the extent that it exists is not in that sense unfounded) or Thailand, or most other places for that matter.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What I mean is that there is a deliberate lack of recall when it comes to the fact that we, pardon my French, saved their a**es.


We? I certainly had nothing to do with it. Time has marched on. I don't feel that I owe the French the independence of my country, nor do I feel that Brits owe theirs to Americans or Soviets who pulled their butts out of the fire 60 years ago. I would not presume to go into France and expect the French to have this "sense of recall over my saving their hindquarters".

I do not feel that I should bear any responsibility for Jim Crow or any of my country's bad actions of the past, consequently I do not deserve any thanks or credit. I had nothing to do with those things.

Quote:
We are essentially set up to fail here in my view..



And yet many succeed. Is the failure found in the place or in the person?

Quote:
but we-- the US-- built it of course. Yes, I said it)


The US provided many things, but no more built this country than France or Germany was built by the U.S. Which is to say a great deal from Americans and a great deal more from the people in those countries.

Quote:
They are not allowed to be human beings.


I have found that many Koreans lead far more fulfilling lives than many of those who view them as robots. Many of whom seem to believe they are something other than people schleping away at their jobs. A lot of people who talk about writing, talk about forming a band or making a movie. Then I meet Koreans who ARE writers, who ARE musicians, who ARE making movies.
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coratheexplorer



Joined: 16 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
What I mean is that there is a deliberate lack of recall when it comes to the fact that we, pardon my French, saved their a**es.


We? I certainly had nothing to do with it. Time has marched on. I don't feel that I owe the French the independence of my country, nor do I feel that Brits owe theirs to Americans or Soviets who pulled their butts out of the fire 60 years ago. I would not presume to go into France and expect the French to have this "sense of recall over my saving their hindquarters".

I do not feel that I should bear any responsibility for Jim Crow or any of my country's bad actions of the past, consequently I do not deserve any thanks or credit. I had nothing to do with those things.

Quote:
We are essentially set up to fail here in my view..



And yet many succeed. Is the failure found in the place or in the person?

Quote:
but we-- the US-- built it of course. Yes, I said it)


The US provided many things, but no more built this country than France or Germany was built by the U.S. Which is to say a great deal from Americans and a great deal more from the people in those countries.

Quote:
They are not allowed to be human beings.


I have found that many Koreans lead far more fulfilling lives than many of those who view them as robots. Many of whom seem to believe they are something other than people schleping away at their jobs. A lot of people who talk about writing, talk about forming a band or making a movie. Then I meet Koreans who ARE writers, who ARE musicians, who ARE making movies.


I see I've hit a nerve. If I remember correctly you are a forum member who is of Korean descent. It's great that you offer counterpoints and believe me I do consider them. I just have to process my thoughts about this country and culture, and we are free to do that here, fortunately (though believe it or not I am still holding back on what I really wished to say...). I don't want to come across as making generalizations about a race or ethnic group because that is disgusting. Having said that, I still stand by my assessments and know they have merit. You and I clearly have different experiences of this place. Maybe someday you will go somewhere and you will understand more what people like me mean when we make the comments that we do about South Korea.... What can I say. This is just not the place for me. Sincerely though I say thanks Steelrails, I appreciate feedback. Just need to vent, please don't take it personally. I know people are people at the end of the day. I wish everyone a happy life and I know we have to all make it work on this planet together....
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smithy



Joined: 17 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who is this "we" that "saved Korean a**es?" It certainly wasn't you, was it?

You haven't gone into details but - and please correct me if I'm wrong - you appear to have been treated badly by somebody and you believe that, because a group of people from your country fought a war here a while back, you should be treated differently than you have been?
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a lot of admiration for the U.s. world wide and along with it a lot of jealosy.

Also as ttompatz wrote the U.s. foreign policy really has angered people.

I think it is the cultural dominance of the U.s., movies music and such it focuses attention on the U.S.

Look at the anger over the invasion if Iraq. ANo doubt there was a reason to be angry about that. Then if you look at how the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan generated no marches or protests no lasting bitterness. by being the focus of attention our flaws are exposed more than other countries.

Some governments like to point at the U.S. to deflect criticism away from their own mistakes and flaws.

Only an idiot would think that Korea does not owe the U.S something. they would be a province of China at this time if not for the U.S. not brag fact. That soes not mean they should kiis our feet but at least acknowledge it in some small way.

if you are going to live abroad then you have to toughen up. Ihear the crap every day. I usually laugh it off. Unless it gets stupid or personal.

Oh no doubt we deserve a lot of the flak we get.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If I remember correctly you are a forum member who is of Korean descent.


Didn't take long for that one to come out...

Quote:
Maybe someday you will go somewhere and you will understand more what people like me mean when we make the comments that we do about South Korea


First, who are you to presume that I don't 'understand' the kind of experience you are talking about?

You mean like back home, where I'd hear Asian-Americans constantly whine and moan about "Model Minority" this and negative media portrayal that and racist government policies and discrimination in the workplace?

My experience is that both basher NETs and Angry AAs (or Angry White Males or Angry Black Man)back home are remarkably alike in what they consider their bad experiences. The beat may change, but the song remains the same.
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optik404



Joined: 24 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an American, I find it confusing when people say, "we", in reference to events they had no part in.

"we killed bin laden", "we built this country", etc..
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my take on how Koreans (*generalizing) view the US.

In the 50s-60s, the US was viewed as the liberator.
70s-80s the US was viewed as linked to the dictatorial governments. Also, the "shine" of The Perfect America was starting to wear off. People were realizing that America had its own interests.
90s-00s, Koreans are trying to figure out how the alliance, and foreign troops in their country, fit into how they view their modern country. Some view it as a partner, others a throwback to times past.

There will alway be extremes on either side of the spectrum though.
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coralreefer_1



Joined: 19 Jan 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smithy wrote:
Who is this "we" that "saved Korean a**es?" It certainly wasn't you, was it?

You haven't gone into details but - and please correct me if I'm wrong - you appear to have been treated badly by somebody and you believe that, because a group of people from your country fought a war here a while back, you should be treated differently than you have been?


While I cannot speak for the OP, I get the sense that he or she is not trying to say they should be treated differently because of the actions you mentioned, but rather saying that he/she did not expect to be treated badly.

Being treated badly because a teacher is simply a "foreigner" is one thing. Being treated badly because that person is an "American" and many people (mostly other foreigners here from my own experience) for whatever reason feel justified to lay all their grievances with the US on that person, and treat them in a way that reflects their negative views of the US is an entirely different situation.
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Patrick Bateman



Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

South Koreans are people, and as such you're bound to have varied experiences.

I'm a white American and have had my share of good and bad.

I've had random kids come up and literally hit me and say, "F you Americans" and I've been walking around and had random Korean men ask if I were American, and then have them shake my hand and say "Thank you."

I didn't deserve either in my opinion, but it shows the polar attitudes that you'll encounter any time you leave your country.

And I agree with what Ttompatz and Steelrails said.
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