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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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baedaebok

Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Location: Seoul, South Korea
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Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:13 pm Post subject: Online doctorate |
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Do Korean universities generally accept online doctorates? That is, the courses were mostly online with a short residency requirements.
On the univ job ads which mention "Phd required", I rarely see anything about "Online PHd not accepted"? So, are online PHd's OK in Korea?
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Online doctorate |
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If it's a Harvard online PhD I doubt there will be any problems.
baedaebok wrote: |
Do Korean universities generally accept online doctorates? That is, the courses were mostly online with a short residency requirements.
On the univ job ads which mention "Phd required", I rarely see anything about "Online PHd not accepted"? So, are online PHd's OK in Korea?
BDB |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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There is probably not a yes or no answer to this. It is a matter of supply and demand. If they have have one applicant with a PhD and its an online degree - well, then...supply and demand. If they have two applicants and one is online and the other isn't...you get the idea. |
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salutbonjour
Joined: 22 Jan 2013
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Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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LOL, an online PhD. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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A couple other things to consider: not all subject areas are created equal. If you have a degree in an area of high demand, it may matter less whether it was distance learning. Also, if the diploma does not explicitly say it was a distance progam, you certainly do not need to advertise.
Lastly, remember that having PhD's on staff effects a univeristy department's funding. They want PhD's because it boils down to $$$. If you have a degree from an accredited institution that is recognized by the Korean Ministry of Education, then I cannot see how it would not be a valuable asset. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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salutbonjour wrote: |
LOL, an online PhD. |
Absolutely ridiculous, isn't it.
It's mind boggling that people think that a doctorate can be obtained online. |
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ttompatz

Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Mail-order doctor.
http://www.ttompatz.house.of.online.phd.com/
For $129.95* you too can have a Ph.D. of your very own.
The message brought to you by the fine folks at Photoshop.
*plus 15.99 shipping and handling.
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valkerie
Joined: 02 Mar 2007 Location: Busan
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:38 am Post subject: |
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In the UK most doctorates (maybe all?) consist of independent research. It's a bit different from what I hear about US programmes. Really you only need to see your supervisor a couple of times and go to the viva at the end. Can't see it matters where you do it if you are a Brit |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:25 am Post subject: |
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This is true of all commonwealth countries. For many academic fields, PhD's are research only (No coursework). There are pros and cons to this. A huge complaint of many U.S. PhD candidates is the amount of irrelevant coursework they must complete. In the humanities, where the majority of a candidate's work is textual analysis (reading books and writing about what they say) there is no reason you could not work from just about anywhere and Skype your supervisor meetings. Many universities in commonwealth countries permit PhD candidates to complete their degrees under "part-time external" status.
valkerie wrote: |
In the UK most doctorates (maybe all?) consist of independent research. It's a bit different from what I hear about US programmes. Really you only need to see your supervisor a couple of times and go to the viva at the end. Can't see it matters where you do it if you are a Brit |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's been pointed out before, but there is a difference between an online degree and a distance degree studied online.
An online degree suggests a degree from a degree mill, some may require you to submit something, but they are not bricks and mortar accredited universities. These look pretty, but the word fraud comes to mind if you try to claim the qualification.
Then there is a distance degree taken online from an accredited bricks and mortar university, which is the way I am doing my professional doctorate. The coursework I do for this is marked by the same people who mark the on campus subject using the same criteria. This is a real degree. But when people see I'm attending University of Australia and I was living in Korea, they may discount my degree. If they're that stupid I don't want to work there.
The comment above about Commonwealth countries is definitely correct for Australia. Let's say you're doing your research on how Koreans learn English, would you conduct such research in Australia, or in Korea???????
My program has many students in Hong Kong and when they get to the thesis stage, they communicate with their supervisor via email. Of course for the defense of your thesis if required, a plane trip will be required.
Depending on your current situation though is a PhD worthwhile? If you're working in Korea, a lot of universities will not recognise any study you undertake while working, as they believe you can't do both, yes it takes 25 hours to prepare for 15 hours of class.
If you're not at a university already, do you really want to do a PhD to earn 3 mill a month? If you're Australian at least 4 years of PhD study is free, but if you're not, investing 40-80 million to make 36 million a year seems like a rather poor return.
There are some very successful ESL PhD's in Korea, but I think it's fair to say they could be counted on your fingers. One of them responded here. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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A short answer to this question may be the following: I know that the Ministry of Immigration maintains a list of Western universities which are considered accredited -- meaning you are eligible to teach in Korea if you have a degree from one of them. If your uni is not on the list, you're out. No negotiating. The list, as well as information on how it is compliled, what critieria they use, is probably floating around online, but I don't know where. Probably something ttompatz could answer.
I'll repeat what I said above: If a Korean uni can use your PhD to justify extra funding $$$, it's definitely an asset. Uni's don't want PhD's because they are pretty. It boils down to money. I would definitely want to get concrete information regarding the accreditation status of any degree program before I relied on it as an asset for employment in Korea. I think if you got a particularly knowledgeable immigration official on the phone, or went in to speak to them personally, it may lead to reliable information. |
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PRagic

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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You're getting ahead of yourself. Many people who start out on the road to getting a doctorate assume that once the degree, any degree, is in hand, the world will be their oyster. Not so. All degrees were not created equally.
So, sure, you might actually get an on-line Ph.D., but in the end, you'll be competing for jobs against people with Ph.D.s from possibly bigger name schools, higher ranked programs (almost as important when choosing a Ph.D. program), and significant teaching and research experience that comes with doing an on-site degree program. End result? You probably won't get hired at a higher tiered university, that is if you get hired at all. Compound this by the fact that Seoul has more Ph.D.s per capita than any city in the world.
If you're looking to be an adjunct, a perpetual 'visiting assistant professor, or if you're just looking for a long-term English teaching gig with more stability (if your on-line Ph.D. is from an accredited instiution at least you'll be the last to be cut), then go for it. If you want a career in academe and you want credentials with connections, stick to the regular route. |
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ThePoet
Joined: 15 May 2004 Location: No longer in Korea - just lurking here
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:57 am Post subject: |
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I Just wanted to add to, or clarify a couple of things from big_fella1...and BTW, great post and explanation from big_fella1 on this topic. I don't post here or even visit Dave's that often anymore since I have been back in Canada for 5 years but when I do come on and find threads like this, I find myself drawn to them like a moth to flame.
big_fella1 was correct in his distinction of an online degree and a distance degree, and even though there are still a few dinosaurs that a) don't know the distinction, and b) belittle distance programs, I know from experience and observation that that chasm is shrinking...at least in western countries and on forums such as this one (although I still see a few of those dinos rearing their heads here). For the most part, though, even brick and mortar schools in the U.S. and Canada are now offering distance components or even short residency distance programs for Masters and Doctorates and are getting closer to following the Commonwealth system described in other posts.
Many universities are realizing that with the demands on potential students for work/life balance, the archaic traditions of demanding graduate students to be slaves on campus 24/7 just doesn't work, and if they want their tuition money, distance degrees are viable especially with the technology and reliablity of the internet available most everywhere today.
I just wanted to comment on big_fella1's last comment on expenses. Look around. There are many accredited or nationally certified (outside of the U.S. accreditation comes from national regulating bodies) distance universities that are not as expensive. The University of South Africa, for example, only costs around $2000.00 a year if you are enrolled in the Doctorate programs, yet it is one of the largest universities in Africa and completely recognized worldwide. It follows the commonwealth system mentioned here in that there are no courses - simply a proposal and the dissertation completed on the individual's own time; then a defense. Open University of Hong Kong also has lower tuitions and they are close to the world of educational gaming and simulations. etc. There are many many more that are like this in places like India, Eurpoe, and Austrlia.
I would encourage you to look at this option. I have benefitted from having a Masters degree, both in Korea and especially Canada, which I received via distance, and am already starting to benefit from the doctoral studies I have taken, even though not complete yet, but also taken via distance.
One last comment that I wanted to state regarding PRagic's statement that if you want to have better credentials then stick to the traditional route. I would have to disagree. If you look at the most reputable experts in any field, it is not from completing their Doctorate. It is from contributing to journals, conferences, and the general body of knowledge before, during and after they get their diplomas. Having a doctorate doesn't mean you then stop. You will constantly need to network, publish, and collaborate for the rest of your career to gain your credentials. As was stated to me by colleagues at the Open Education Conference last year: "The doctorate is just a form of hazing to see if you have enough gas in the tank to create research over the long haul - it's the job of your committee and advisor to load up the trunk with rocks so the hauling is hard. But after you get the doctorate, most don't care where it's from just that you could actually do it."
big_fella1 wrote: |
I think it's been pointed out before, but there is a difference between an online degree and a distance degree studied online.
The coursework I do for this is marked by the same people who mark the on campus subject using the same criteria. This is a real degree. But when people see I'm attending University of Australia and I was living in Korea, they may discount my degree. If they're that stupid I don't want to work there.
If you're not at a university already, do you really want to do a PhD to earn 3 mill a month? If you're Australian at least 4 years of PhD study is free, but if you're not, investing 40-80 million to make 36 million a year seems like a rather poor return.
There are some very successful ESL PhD's in Korea, but I think it's fair to say they could be counted on your fingers. One of them responded here. |
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PRagic

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting post, although I did say that completing the doctorate is the first step, and not the golden key many assume it to be.
One problem being addressed, particularly in trade subscriptions like The Chronicle, is that there is already a glut of 'soft science' or liberal arts doctorates. Admittace to a program should come with a buyer beware warning, some say. So while not all on- line degrees are created equally, and some may indeed be on par with their B&M counterparts, my major concern was not the quality of the best, but the perceived lack of quality of the majority. Many will unfortunately gravitate to these programs. The system already weeds out most with dubious credentials, but that often depends on where the weeding out is taking place.
And let's not forget the part of the B&M experience that simply can't be replicated on line, namely course design and instruction practice and actual research assistant experience. And having been through a B&M program and having subsequently guided students throug the process, I have to say I am a bit dubious of the non-course, straight to the dissertation type program. I have yet to meet an MA holder who can jump in and start doing doctoal level research and writing. What the Euro programs do include, and this has been glossed over here, are multiple sessions with the dissertation chair, and these are akin, at least in purpose, to N. American type seminars; read a load and prove you've digested it. Without this process, doctoral level work flounders and can lead to a frustratingly disjointed piece of work that will not pass muster for the diploma. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to thank ThePoet for their reply. I'd also like to thank PRagic for giving their perspective.
I'm glad to hear that I'm wrong about the cost of doing a PhD, as an Australian its something that you never think about so when I heard that figure, I believed it.
I really believe that a PhD is a classless degree, if you do good research, it will be recognised, no matter how you complete the degree, or from which university. |
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