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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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 Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:50 am Post subject: Study: Less masculine men are more PC-whipped |
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http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/ironically-a-mans-face-can-tell-you-if-hes-likely-to-act-like-a-racist#ixzz2NSkg9BG1
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What can we tell about a person from his or her face? Quite a bit, it seems. Psychological experiments since the turn of the millennium have indicated we do a good job judging people's sexual orientation, reproductive fitness, criminal proclivities, and even whether they're Mormon or not, all based on their faces.
A new study suggests there�s another trait we can add to the list: a man�s willingness to express racist beliefs.
There�s an obvious irony to a study that says we can tell if a man will act bigoted based on the shape of his face. But the logic underpinning the study, conducted by researchers at the University of Delaware and soon to be published in the journal Psychological Science, is a circuitous and unexpected one, and makes a persuasive case.
Turns out it�s all about the testosterone.
Recent research indicates that men with high levels of testosterone have certain facial characteristics that set them apart from men with less testosterone. In particular, they have what researchers call a higher facial Width-to-Height Ratio (fWHR) which compares the distance between cheekbones to the distance between the upper lip and midbrow. Men with a higher ratio have faces that appear a bit wider horizontally and bit compressed vertically (see below).
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Not all men�s faces change equally because not all men have the same levels of testosterone. And here�s the other thing past research suggests about men with high testosterone: They want to dominate. What�s more, we don�t want to stand in their way because, for starters, we probably find men with high fWHRs more physically imposing.
It may be more accurate to say that testosterone promotes the search for and maintenance of social dominance. Therefore, to the extent that a greater fWHR is associated with increased testosterone, fWHR may be a physical manifestation of dominance motives in males and may be best described as an inclination toward interpersonal social dominance and related behaviors.
Among the ways men exercise dominant behavior is by breaking society�s rules. (�Neurological findings," the study notes, �have shown that high testosterone levels are associated with reduced activity in the orbitofrontal cortex, an area used in impulse control and inhibition.) And we, in turn, assume they�ll break them. Whether we know it or not, we know which men will break the rules because we know by the shapes of their faces which ones have more testosterone.
In the world outside your local Tea Party Rally, of course, society says it�s bad to openly express racist opinions. So the Delaware researchers, led by psychology and brain science professor, Eric Hehman (now at Dartmouth), wondered if men with a higher fWHR might feel more comfortable expressing explicitly racist opinions because their high testosterone made them feel less socially inhibited. After gathering and testing 70 white males, researchers found that, relative to the others, they did.
The researchers also wondered if observers looking at photographs of those same 70 men would more often assume the men with wider, shorter faces were more racist. They did. What�s more, their assessments fell right in line with what the 70 men had revealed about themselves: Those men whom the observers believed to be racist were also much more likely to have explicitly expressed racist views.
In the course of several email exchanges, Hehman pointed out that he and his colleagues also tested the 70 men in the study on expressions of �implicit� racial prejudice, which he described as �an automatic association of other races with �bad things���a kind of unconscious response �that people are less able to control.� When it came to these implicit expressions of prejudice, they had no correlation with a person�s face shape. In that sense, we are bad judges.
As Hehman emphasized, this is really a study about willingness to express racist views, not the views themselves. Still, there�s a deterministic quality to the research that, like earlier research linking face structure to criminality or Mormonism, suggests a certain inevitability�an idea many an anti-racist would fundamentally resist. |
The Western Last Man, scared of his own thoughts, is a low-T candyass.
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/03/study-less-masculine-men-more-pc-whipped.html |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow Titus. You must be the most masculine man on the board! |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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High testosterone men- the ambitious, agressive, arrogant, domineering go-getters are the ones who are ruining our planet.
Women probably generally find these types more attractive (hence their continued existence), but they are more likely to be selfish, exploitative, short term thinkers. The types that rise to become leaders, hotshots, developer, ceo's and make decisions that are wrecking our world- be it from environmental or human degradation.
What I find amusing is that many of our presidents and leaders in this world are actually quite unintelligent. They get where they are by being pushy or manipulative. Bluster, intimidation and brinkmanship go a long way in human society.
OK to qualify that: testosterone itself is not the problem. Its the lack of moral values that high-T men tend to have. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:31 am Post subject: |
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Hehe, I figure immoral people to be unnassertive skulky types. Big boys with too much testosterone are pretty direct and easy to figure out. They get what they want with straight on tactics. Politicians and bankers tend to look greasy and sort of charisma man in his twilight years. They get what they want by saying what people want to hear.
I figure banksters and poli to be the ones destroying the earth. Captains of industry/military types seem to be completely out of fashion. Ronald Reagan was the last president to be even vaguely alpha, and even he just played on on TV. Andrew Jackson/George W/Abe Lincoln types are pretty rare these days.
Just in case anyone takes issue with Abe not being manly cause he cuddled dudes, you are dead wrong. He was a monster wreslter, and kicked much ass, like many of the great presidents.
"Abraham Lincoln, as a 21 year old in 1830, was the wrestling champion of his county in Illinois. At this time, where working at a store in New Salem, Illinois, Lincoln had a famous bout with Jack Armstrong, also a county wrestling champion. Lincoln won decisively when, after losing his temper when Armstrong began fouling him, he slammed Armstrong to the ground and knocked him out. Two years later, while serving as a captain in the Illinois Volunteers during the Black Hawk War, Lincoln lost his only recorded match to a soldier in another unit by fall. Wrestling was also practiced by Andrew Johnson, Ulysses S. Grant, Chester A. Arthur, and Theodore Roosevelt,[4]" |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| stilicho25 wrote: |
| Hehe, I figure immoral people to be unnassertive skulky types. |
I figure the exact opposite.
The unassertive and 'skulky' person feels out of his or her element and is outwardly showing their uncertainty in the situation. And frankly, the only reason to show those feelings of trepidation or shyness is concern for social mores and norms. Often these people have an over-developed sense of morality, in a way. "Would it be rude to disturb that girl over there and start a conversation? Probably, so I'd better not." If anything, these people are "opportunistically immoral", engaging in immoral activity only in subtle and unseen ways, or against highly vulnerable victims.
On the other hand, you have the purely confident individual. Whatever acts or schemes this person has done or will do, he or she is completely at peace with them. The classic "Confidence Man" is an obvious example of this. But it goes deeper than that. The most evil men in history have been supremely confident both in themselves and that their acts were appropriate. And the people who let them get away with those unspeakable acts only did so because "immoral people are unassertive skulky types" and this confident person is so committed to X, it must be ok. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| The most evil men in history have been supremely confident both in themselves and that their acts were appropriate. |
That is probably true. Stalin and Hitler fit that type. Saddam, the ayatollah.
But troublemakers like Ahmedinnajad or Kim Jong Il seem like dweebs by comparison.
I think we can say that the basic immorality doesn't change from leader to leader, only the degree of testosterone (and thus drive) to fulfill it. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| The most evil men in history have been supremely confident both in themselves and that their acts were appropriate. |
That is probably true. Stalin and Hitler fit that type. Saddam, the ayatollah.
But troublemakers like Ahmedinnajad or Kim Jong Il seem like dweebs by comparison.
I think we can say that the basic immorality doesn't change from leader to leader, only the degree of testosterone (and thus drive) to fulfill it. |
Testosterone is directly and tightly correlated with confidence and loosely to aggression (which in-itself is related to violence - of organized or individual). Men with high-T are more confident. Men with high-T are more capable of being aggressive.
I don't believe there is a difference in morals but rather the intensity with which the morals are held and the willingness to react when they're broken.
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/News_Articles/2011/galinksy-bargaining.aspx
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| Additionally, the test also found that the testosterone level did not alter the perceived fairness of low-ball offers but predicted how people responded to this fairness. Those with higher levels of testosterone were more likely to act on their sense of unfairness by retaliating in response. |
That's basically how I've understood it. The values are the same, but the T impacts the response. Though the above is a small study etc. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Nietzsche really needed this study. He's never really recovered from when Lemarckism was discredited. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder what kind of opinions would have been deemed "explicitly racist." Noticing trends in crime statistics perhaps? |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| I wonder what kind of opinions would have been deemed "explicitly racist." Noticing trends in crime statistics perhaps? |
More likely those who believe Africans to be inferior etc........ |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I suspect I'm a pretty low testosterone fellow, and I've never had much of a problem with just saying whatever comes to mind, so I'm wary. On the one hand, statistical generalizations obviously defy any individual case; I could just be a freak outlier. On the other hand, psychologists and social scientists are often willing to twist data (or even outright fabricate it) in order to "prove" what they care to, so this could just as easily be some perverse academic attack on masculinity. When academia first makes "racism" (in its most generic, least meaningful form) into an intrinsic evil, and then tries to link masculinity directly to the expression of that evil, well... |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:03 am Post subject: |
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I think part of the problem is everyone has to fit some label. You see a leftist first, I see an obnoxious idiot. Also, he didn't seem very leftist in what he as saying, or for harassing leftist students.
The actual logistics of the study didn't impress me much, but then again I tend to distrust small scale social experiments. I wonder what he results would be if they conducted this study in the army, Americas great melting pot of lower class high testosterone males who also depend on, and potentially fight and die , for each other. Real racism is disgusting, over relying on claims of racism isn't helpful though. As some one who comes from the south, I've seen and heard many of these so called high testosterone males say incredibly stupid racist things, yet they are best friends with the black guy on the football team. It's a total disconnect from the ones they know and all the rest of them. That's bad, but better than the people who are very PC but never interact with anyone outside of their own class. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:33 am Post subject: |
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He agreed with their goals "pro-immigration" but disagreed with a non-violent approach. That is pretty leftist.
As for the testosterone vs PC racism, i agree completely. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| stilicho25 wrote: |
He agreed with their goals "pro-immigration" but disagreed with a non-violent approach. That is pretty leftist.
As for the testosterone vs PC racism, i agree completely. |
I thought it was pretty clear he was mocking them, but I could be wrong. |
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