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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| I'd never do it for a very simple reason: animals have been used as mules for drugs, diamonds, etc. Would you bring a suitcase through customs without knowing what's inside? |
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midnightpariah
Joined: 15 Mar 2010
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ren546
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Janny wrote: |
| Do theses naysayers notice how animals are treated in Korea? With a small exception of animal lovers (Nabiya, ARK...) dogs and cats are treated either like accessories or like common vermin. Eating an octopus while it's still alive at the table. Dog soup. |
This irritates me for a several reasons.
1. If you think there's any moral difference (that can be reasonably justified) between eating dog meat and eating beef, not to mention human meat, read Peter Singer.
2. I see a lot of Koreans doting over their animals like they're babies, and I don't really think they're such a "small exception" here. For example, yesterday at the Han River there was a guy sitting on a bench with two golden retrievers, watching and petting them affectionately as they were sleeping. But of course, we never hear these stories. We only hear about the abuse.
3. Go to any animal shelter in the west and you might come out wishing that people were nice enough to kill their dogs and eat them. It's wrong to assume that North Americans treat dogs better than Koreans simply because they don't eat them. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Think a little. the crops failed its winter, your child is sick, and starving, you have a dog. You dont even think about it. You eat the dog. You do know that it has only been the last half of the twentieth century that most people in north Asia had enough to eat.
its fine that you want to help these animals but do not think that you are in some way better than these people. You have never had to make choices about who lived or died in a tough winter, do we feed grandmother or the baby. These choices were commonly faced in korea and other countries. You ate anything that was available.
Do what you will, but please drop the tone of moral superioity in the post.
I am curious though what happens in Canada if there is no home for the dogs? is that all arranged? if someone backs out what happens? |
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newyorker
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: |
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I get that when there is nothing to eat, you eat your dog. In times of crisis one turns off empathy to do things that aren't pleasant. But there is a lot of food to eat in South Korea these days so you don't really have to eat your dog anymore.
It is mostly the old generation who think that dog soup is good 'medicine' ie: makes men virile. It is also believed that you if beat the dog to death it makes a better meal. I am not cool with that practice. At least kill the creature in a humane way.
There are many examples of how things used to be in the past but things change. And hopefully for the better.
Homes are arranged for the dogs in Canada and the USA. Often larger dogs are placed abroad as they have more space, ie: yards with room to run and the climate is better for a husky dog in Canada etc.
The Koreans who run the animal shelters are amazing people and have much experience with the adoption process. There are homes waiting for these dogs. And it isn't like they are shipped out of the Korea by the hundreds. There are special cases, certain dogs that need a home abroad. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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I eat dog meat and believe it to have no relation to my virility - I just like the taste.
That being said, as with all my meat, I hope that it's slaughtered in a reasonable way. |
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Janny
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: all over the place
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
This irritates me for a several reasons.
1. If you think there's any moral difference (that can be reasonably justified) between eating dog meat and eating beef, not to mention human meat, read Peter Singer.
2. I see a lot of Koreans doting over their animals like they're babies, and I don't really think they're such a "small exception" here. For example, yesterday at the Han River there was a guy sitting on a bench with two golden retrievers, watching and petting them affectionately as they were sleeping. But of course, we never hear these stories. We only hear about the abuse.
3. Go to any animal shelter in the west and you might come out wishing that people were nice enough to kill their dogs and eat them. It's wrong to assume that North Americans treat dogs better than Koreans simply because they don't eat them. |
I was going to leave this alone, but I can't resist! arrrggg!
1. There is no moral difference between eating dog meat and cow meat. The difference here is that slaughterpeople don't try to inflict maximum pain on the cow before it's dead. That's what they do to dogs here in Korea because the adrenalin of pain makes the meat "better". I will also assert (on my own belief, not based on any facts) that this happens LESS often because fewer Koreans are eating dog meat. Also, animal justice is gaining ground in Korea with every new generation.
2. I am happy for you that you saw a Korean treating their pets with kindness. In my 8 years in Korea, I RARELY saw any evidence of loving, caring pet ownership. What I saw were a lot of underfed, dirty, abandoned dogs getting yelled at and kicked around. I saw dogs and cats stuffed into cages both on the back of a truck and in a back-alley animal sale area. I saw a old man tossing chicks in the air from a big box-full, in front of a circle of boys, apparently trying to teach them..something. I fed many dogs that were left alone in yards day and night, tied up, lonely and filthy. I put food and blankets in a box where an owner had locked his dog for the winter. Outside his shop. I saw small dogs with ears dyed pink or with YSL logo. People who assumed that rice was an excellent food (luxury!) for a dog.
YEAH this stuff happens in other countries! But in Canada, it would not go on for long before someone intervened on the animal's behalf.
3. Every animal shelter I have been to in Canada has been a sad place with cages, sure. But the people there love the animals and volunteer their time to play, care and feed the animals. To get them adopted to suitable homes. To neuter and spay.
And finally....I DO NOT assume that NAmericans treat their animals better than Koreans because they don't eat them!! (How stupid!) It's because of what I've seen with my own EYES in BOTH countries.
If you have to eat your dog to survive, that is a whole other freaking conversation! Of course I would if I had to. This is NOT the point!
omg freak-out! Gotta get a drink! |
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ren546
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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I was ALSO going to leave this alone, but now I can't.
| Janny wrote: |
| 1. There is no moral difference between eating dog meat and cow meat. The difference here is that slaughterpeople don't try to inflict maximum pain on the cow before it's dead. That's what they do to dogs here in Korea because the adrenalin of pain makes the meat "better". I will also assert (on my own belief, not based on any facts) that this happens LESS often because fewer Koreans are eating dog meat. Also, animal justice is gaining ground in Korea with every new generation. |
You need facts to back this up. There are a lot of ridiculous things being said about the practices of the dog meat market here, on Facebook, and elsewhere, and very little has been well-supported. If what you say is true, then that's terrible, but I can't just believe what you and a few others happen to say about it.
| Janny wrote: |
| 2. I am happy for you that you saw a Korean treating their pets with kindness. In my 8 years in Korea, I RARELY saw any evidence of loving, caring pet ownership. What I saw were a lot of underfed, dirty, abandoned dogs getting yelled at and kicked around. I saw dogs and cats stuffed into cages both on the back of a truck and in a back-alley animal sale area. I saw a old man tossing chicks in the air from a big box-full, in front of a circle of boys, apparently trying to teach them..something. I fed many dogs that were left alone in yards day and night, tied up, lonely and filthy. I put food and blankets in a box where an owner had locked his dog for the winter. Outside his shop. I saw small dogs with ears dyed pink or with YSL logo. People who assumed that rice was an excellent food (luxury!) for a dog. |
Get out of the hood and go to a park.
| Janny wrote: |
YEAH this stuff happens in other countries! But in Canada, it would not go on for long before someone intervened on the animal's behalf.
3. Every animal shelter I have been to in Canada has been a sad place with cages, sure. But the people there love the animals and volunteer their time to play, care and feed the animals. To get them adopted to suitable homes. To neuter and spay. |
I'm not questioning the people who work at animal shelters. I'm just saying that animals come in there for the same reasons that they come in to shelters here in Korea.
| Janny wrote: |
| And finally....I DO NOT assume that NAmericans treat their animals better than Koreans because they don't eat them!! (How stupid!) It's because of what I've seen with my own EYES in BOTH countries. |
I don't know about this. I'm also Canadian, and I also live in Korea. I've seen terrible cases in both countries, in other countries, and I've seen a solid number of animal lovers as well. I'm just tired of hearing about this issue being described in terms of a problem with Koreans. It's a problem with all kinds of people, all over the world, INCLUDING Canada.
As for the OP, I still stand by my original position when I say that the money and hassle of having to transport this dog to a different country simply isn't worth it. Why?
1. Dogs don't like to fly, and it can be quite traumatizing for them if you happen to go with the wrong company.
2. The people in Canada who want this dog so badly can find one in Canada to rescue instead. Hell, they can probably rescue 2 or 3 now with the money that they would otherwise have sent to Korea to get the rescue dog shipped. Yes, dogs, like family, are irreplaceable, but not until they're actually a part of your family. |
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newyorker
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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ren546:
I don't disagree with you. I agree that there are risks to flying animals over. I have heard and read about the fatalities of flying with animals however it has usually happened on domestic flights. That's not to say it hasn't happened on international flights.
And I have grappled with the issue of 'why not help local dogs in local shelters' You could probably get two local dogs for the price of one Korean dog for sure. I have found that people have adopted local dogs as well as Korean dogs.
Also it looks like I won't be helping any Korean dogs get to the US or Canada because although this thread has generated a lot of discourse no one has contacted me to say they can bring a dog over. So those Korean dogs will probably be living and dying there. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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It's interesting, because I AM flying to Canada next month. In a way, I'd be the type of person you'd want to help - I think it'd be great to get these dogs a new home. Now, to be honest, I think you should be helping locally... but that's just an opinion. And in no way takes away from your intention here.
But, that being said, I would still be extremely uncomfortable bringing anything on a plane for a person. Oh course I'm not accusing you of anything, but I don't feel comfortable with that sort of thing.
Perhaps the lack of response is becuase others feel the same. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Another reason I would never do it: I can't be certain that those adopting won't be bragging to their friends that they've rescued their dogs from Koreans. Heck, I bet they will. |
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fionnjameson
Joined: 11 Mar 2013
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| Janny wrote: |
1. There is no moral difference between eating dog meat and cow meat. The difference here is that slaughterpeople don't try to inflict maximum pain on the cow before it's dead. That's what they do to dogs here in Korea because the adrenalin of pain makes the meat "better". I will also assert (on my own belief, not based on any facts) that this happens LESS often because fewer Koreans are eating dog meat. Also, animal justice is gaining ground in Korea with every new generation.
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I'm getting too old to get all up in arms about this kind of crap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvdLzU9BQ7s
This whole "dogs shouldn't be eaten" argument has been old since the 60s. |
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Janny
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: all over the place
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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That's not the argument...but whatever, I'm done.
You might want to look for video on the internet about dog butchering in Korea. They exist. WHY would anyone MAKE THAT SHIT UP???
Do these dudes beat the cows before they kill them so the meat is more adrenalized? No. The horrors of other slaughterhouses exist because of volume and time restraints. Not because they WANT to traumatize the cow.
And for the record, I have no problems with eating dog meat. It's reprehensible NOT because "he's a pet!" but because of the way they are slaughtered. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Not all are slaughtered that way. And unfortunately, we don't know what % are.
I had dog meat at my aunt's farm a few years back... one of their dogs. We chatted about "the process", and they said it was comparable to the killing of any of their animals. |
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Janny
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: all over the place
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm sure you're right. That kind of bad juju can't last. cheers |
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