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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:39 pm Post subject: 1st timers stop paying your own airfare to come here! |
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Guys I know for EPIK, GEPIK that you have no choice but DO NOT PAY YOUR AIRFARE to come to Korea for a hagwon job.
I've been hearing too many stories lately of hagwons getting the visa for someone and cancelling the job. The problem for you is Korea's incredibly restrictive visa system. If you have the visa in you passport its a major headache but in all likelyhood you will need to wait outside Korea for 90 days until your visa expires.
No airfare, no contract. I know other countries don't pay airfares but its cheaper to get their visas and you're not as tied to your visa sponsor. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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good suggestion. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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And if they say they'll reimburse you after the first payday, it might not necessarily be true. At my last school, a coworker didn't get reimbursed until the third month and another coworker still hadn't gotten reimbursed when I last saw him and there were only two more workdays left in his contract. |
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wonkavite62
Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Location: Jeollanamdo, South Korea.
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:34 pm Post subject: Horrified |
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I am horrified that hagwons are playing this game. A few years ago ALL hagwons would pay for my flight to Korea. Part of the appeal of Korea for me is relatively low start up costs. If a hagwon owner starts telling me that I have to pay for my flight upfront, I might just say that I've got a terrible ear infection, and I couldn't hear what he just said, but it's standard practice for hagwons to pay for teachers to fly over.
And if he insists, and asks me to pay for rent for example, I might just say I have a really great offer from ***cool Japan*** and that I'm really excited about Japanese culture: I want to climb Mount Fuji and practice my kanji!  |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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If the school isn't going to pay airfare, there's an almost 100% chance that you won't get health insurance, pension, severance, and a lot of other things. Even most "good" hagwons commit fraud against their foreign employees, but to come to Korea to work for an employer who won't pay for your flight really is jumping into the deep end of a pool full of doo-doo. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: 1st timers stop paying your own airfare to come here! |
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big_fella1 wrote: |
I've been hearing too many stories lately of hagwons getting the visa for someone and cancelling the job. The problem for you is Korea's incredibly restrictive visa system. If you have the visa in you passport its a major headache but in all likelyhood you will need to wait outside Korea for 90 days until your visa expires. |
And if you fly here without a work visa, your school will almost certainly expect you to work for some period of time before a visa run to Japan. This entails working illegally and puts you in a position where you'll potentially face fines, deportation, and maybe even the Korean government cutting a deal where you should have sex with your boss.
http://monkeysandmountains.com/getting-deported |
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Deja
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: 1st timers stop paying your own airfare to come here! |
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EZE wrote: |
This entails working illegally and puts you in a position where you'll potentially face fines, deportation, and maybe even the Korean government cutting a deal where you should have sex with your boss.
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That's not always bad I know some pretty female bosses for my end  |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: 1st timers stop paying your own airfare to come here! |
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Deja wrote: |
EZE wrote: |
This entails working illegally and puts you in a position where you'll potentially face fines, deportation, and maybe even the Korean government cutting a deal where you should have sex with your boss.
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That's not always bad I know some pretty female bosses for my end  |
My current boss is pretty too, but I don't think they cut the same deal for foreign males with female bosses.
The repentant sex bribe sometimes offered by Korean Immigration is probably what motivated my female former boss at Wonderland to report me for not paying unemployment insurance on an E-2 visa.  |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:33 am Post subject: |
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If you want a good E2 job in Korea, you should expect to pay for your own ticket and be reimbursed.
Many of the best schools* - hogwans - in Korea will not prepay your ticket. It will be in the contract that you will be reimbursed at an early specific date, which will be honored. If you aren't willing to prepay your own way with reimbursement after arrival, you will not be taken seriously and will not be hired, so you'll miss out on the best jobs.
Most hogwans will pay your full pay, register and pay for National Health Insurance and Pension and honor contract terms, despite the bias of certain posters on Dave's.
For those who come on their own dime without a job, or who search for a new job while in Korea, there are some hogwans that offer a cash bonus in lieu of airfare.
*School in Korea means a hogwan that teaches well. Most hogwans are far better than all of the public schools in Korea. Most children in Korea learn at hogwans, from home teachers, or by teaching themselves to make up for the low quality public schools.
Although the definition of a "school" is a place where people go to learn, most Korean public schools are primarily babysitting and testing centers that don't teach and it stretches the definition to call them schools. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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ontheway wrote: |
Many of the best schools* - hogwans - in Korea will not prepay your ticket. It will be in the contract that you will be reimbursed at an early specific date, which will be honored. If you aren't willing to prepay your own way with reimbursement after arrival, you will not be taken seriously and will not be hired, so you'll miss out on the best jobs. |
I'm sorry but why would the best schools:
A) Be unable to pay for the ticket up front?
B) Be hiring first timers with no experience?
As far as not being taken seriously I would think that investing $500 (which good hagwons will reimburse) and the messing around to get your documents in order is a sign of your serious intention.
There are good hagwons out there. Many years ago a friend was working at a Wonderland franchise of all places and a coworker was diagnosed with cancer. The school paid her for the rest of her contract even though she wasn't working and let her keep her apartment until she was well enough to go home. No this is not an endorsement of Wonderland and this happened almost 7 years ago, I don't even know if that school is still open and if it is I'm sure the franchisee would have changed by now.
Could you please suggest 5 hagwons that are good.
Cheers |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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ontheway wrote: |
Many of the best schools* - hogwans - in Korea will not prepay your ticket. It will be in the contract that you will be reimbursed at an early specific date, which will be honored. If you aren't willing to prepay your own way with reimbursement after arrival, you will not be taken seriously and will not be hired, so you'll miss out on the best jobs. |
My experience at my previous school refutes all of this. I refused to pay my airfare and the school hired me anyway and paid for my airfare upfront. My start date was August 23, 2011. A co-worker who started on September 20, 2011 was supposed to get reimbursed for his flight on the first payday, but it didn't happen until his third month, and he only got reimbursed then because he threatened to quit. He pulled a runner on April 9th and I pulled a runner two days later. A co-worker who started on April 15, 2011 still hadn't been reimbursed for his airfare to Korea even though there were only two more workdays remaining in his contract!
So to say an airfare reimbursement "will be honored at an early specific date" as if it's definitely going to happen is very misleading.
ontheway wrote: |
Most hogwans will pay your full pay, register and pay for National Health Insurance and Pension and honor contract terms, despite the bias of certain posters on Dave's. |
The bias is a result of not having National Heath Insurance and Pension. I don't have it at my current school despite it being in my contract. I didn't have it at my previous school and neither did any of my foreign co-workers.
In the thread linked below, Dave's most highly respected expert, ttompatz, stated that he had never met a hakwon teacher with NHIC coverage and even a poster considered by some to be "the biggest apologist on Dave's," TheUrbanMyth, said that he had never met even one hagwon teacher who had NHIC coverage.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=179710
I did have coverage at one school nearly a decade ago, but that was only because several of the foreign staff were about to pull runners if it didn't happen. That was the last time a school provided national health insurance and I have never met a hagwon teacher in Korea who is covered since completing my contract at that school. I'm sure there are hagwons out there who do provide national health insurance and pension, but there's a very significant percentage of hagwons that do not. I would be willing to bet my entire pension, if I had one, that it's much, much higher than your estimate of "less than 10%." |
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MetaFitX
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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I paid my own way to come here on my contract and was given a 90% reimbursement a few months later. I don't see what the big deal is? Almost every other country doesn't pay airfare upfront. Why should Koreans? They want to see if you are not an alcoholic loser who swears at the kids before giving you a visa. I see no problem with this.
I also needed a job bad like many others in this horrible economy, so that was part of it. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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ontheway wrote: |
Most hogwans will pay your full pay, register and pay for National Health Insurance and Pension and honor contract terms, despite the bias of certain posters on Dave's. |
Is that really true though?
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I first moved to Korea in the summer of 2009 to study Korean at Yonsei Uni and wrap up my BA from my university in the States.
After earning my degree, I began working as a teacher. Life in Korea was great up until that point. Out of the three different schools/companies I worked for, I was stolen from, lied to and cheated by them all. I realize that not everyone shares my experience of Korean employers -but it seems to me that similar experiences are shared by many in So. Korea.
I finally made the decision to move to Vietnam -a country I had I fallen in-love with on a backpacking trip 4 years before. Now, looking back, I seriously can't understand why I stayed in Korea for so long.
I now work for an amazing company. The lesson plans are well structured, laid out solidly yet allow a lot of room for creative elaboration -no one is ever breathing down my back. So long as the students grades are good -and their reviews of you are positive, then nobody will make any problems for you. The students are incredibly respectful (to one another and to the teachers) compared to Korean students -and very eager to learn. The company I work for (and most other large ones like it) provides long holidays anytime of year so long as you give them 2-4 weeks notice. I've never been cheated, and was even provided two advancements when money was tight after I first arrived. I work only 20-30 hours a week, and I am paid more than I was in Dae Chi Dong~Gangnam when I was working 40hours plus. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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MetaFitX wrote: |
I paid my own way to come here on my contract and was given a 90% reimbursement a few months later. I don't see what the big deal is? Almost every other country doesn't pay airfare upfront. Why should Koreans? They want to see if you are not an alcoholic loser who swears at the kids before giving you a visa. I see no problem with this.
I also needed a job bad like many others in this horrible economy, so that was part of it. |
So they were a few months late in reimbursing you, and cheated you out of 10% of the cost, and you are ok with that (or is there something I'm missing)? |
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busanliving
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:29 am Post subject: |
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I'm almost tempted to tell hogwan owners not to pay airfare anymore. There have been several stories of posters doing midnight runs during the first month for no warranted reason. |
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