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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| See "k-borg" post above, classic example. Guess one has to take it as entertainement. |
I get where he's coming from totally. I've worked in a lot of countries but the sheer predictability of the questions/comments you get here surpasses any other I've worked in. |
Like you I worked and lived in a few countries. The questions you refer to are more dictated by limited English than by anything else. Start conversing in Korean with Koreans and magically the conversation topics open up....go figure.  |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Like you I worked and lived in a few countries. The questions you refer to are more dictated by limited English than by anything else. Start conversing in Korean with Koreans and magically the conversation topics open up....go figure. |
I don't agree.
Firstly I'm comparing people with limited English in different countries as my level of the local language was pretty similar to Korean in most places I worked.
Secondly, Koreans who ask questions like 'can you use chopsticks?' Or 'do you like Korean women/kimchi?' have enough language ability to ask any number of other questions in English which would be more original than the ones they do.
Thirdly I've met Koreans with very advanced English language skills here who have also come up with the same old stuff. Not all of course, I'm merely pointing out there seems to be a prevalance here for asking the same questions more so than in other countries. As it paints Koreans in a slightly negative light, you of course would never admit to such a thing. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| See "k-borg" post above, classic example. Guess one has to take it as entertainement. |
I get where he's coming from totally. I've worked in a lot of countries but the sheer predictability of the questions/comments you get here surpasses any other I've worked in. |
Also dictated by the level of comfort one has with the person they are talking with. The more comfortable they are, the more likely you are to get off-beat responses. Group dynamics play a part as well.
For example, my teacher's training classes, the opinions tend to run left of center, with other groups, more conservative, and with young people, more indifferent.
Think if some Korean asks about politics, depending on the setting we might give generic answers because we don't want to start an argument with them, or maybe there's that one dude who loves to argue about politics and everyone just wants to chill and have a beer and if you say anything controversial, they won't shut up for the next 45 minutes (Steelrails, I'm looking in your direction).
With any people, the more they trust you and the smaller the number of people, odds are the more likely you will get to hear what they truly feel.
My favorite topic to get non-generic replies is to talk about sports that Koreans aren't really involved in, say tennis or basketball or even soccer (frame it in a context where PJS or KSY aren't involved). Who was the best shortstop of the last 20 years? Kevin Garnett or Dirk? Federer or Nadal or Djockovic? Hottest chick in Hollywood? BMW or Audi or Mercedes? I guess those are generic topics, but Koreans will actually argue amongst each other over those things in an entertaining fashion. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Also dictated by the level of comfort one has with the person they are talking with. The more comfortable they are, the more likely you are to get off-beat responses. Group dynamics play a part as well.
For example, my teacher's training classes, the opinions tend to run left of center, with other groups, more conservative, and with young people, more indifferent.
Think if some Korean asks about politics, depending on the setting we might give generic answers because we don't want to start an argument with them, or maybe there's that one dude who loves to argue about politics and everyone just wants to chill and have a beer and if you say anything controversial, they won't shut up for the next 45 minutes (Steelrails, I'm looking in your direction).
With any people, the more they trust you and the smaller the number of people, odds are the more likely you will get to hear what they truly feel.
My favorite topic to get non-generic replies is to talk about sports that Koreans aren't really involved in, say tennis or basketball or even soccer (frame it in a context where PJS or KSY aren't involved). Who was the best shortstop of the last 20 years? Kevin Garnett or Dirk? Federer or Nadal or Djockovic? Hottest chick in Hollywood? BMW or Audi or Mercedes? I guess those are generic topics, but Koreans will actually argue amongst each other over those things in an entertaining fashion. |
You, like PGB are being a bit patronising. I've been around foreign students enough to know they react differently in different settings. I'm comparing like situations in diferent countries. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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Also dictated by the level of comfort one has with the person they are talking with. The more comfortable they are, the more likely you are to get off-beat responses. Group dynamics play a part as well.
For example, my teacher's training classes, the opinions tend to run left of center, with other groups, more conservative, and with young people, more indifferent.
Think if some Korean asks about politics, depending on the setting we might give generic answers because we don't want to start an argument with them, or maybe there's that one dude who loves to argue about politics and everyone just wants to chill and have a beer and if you say anything controversial, they won't shut up for the next 45 minutes (Steelrails, I'm looking in your direction).
With any people, the more they trust you and the smaller the number of people, odds are the more likely you will get to hear what they truly feel.
My favorite topic to get non-generic replies is to talk about sports that Koreans aren't really involved in, say tennis or basketball or even soccer (frame it in a context where PJS or KSY aren't involved). Who was the best shortstop of the last 20 years? Kevin Garnett or Dirk? Federer or Nadal or Djockovic? Hottest chick in Hollywood? BMW or Audi or Mercedes? I guess those are generic topics, but Koreans will actually argue amongst each other over those things in an entertaining fashion. |
You, like PGB are being a bit patronising. I've been around foreign students enough to know they react differently in different settings. I'm comparing like situations in diferent countries. |
Well in that context, I'd actually agree with you. Koreans generally aren't as open to arguing or saying controversial things with strangers, more so than others I'd say. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Threads like this and PGB's response when he stated:
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I seriously wonder what Korea some people seem to be living in when I read some of the posts here...
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...make me think of this quote, I think it explains much:
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An old man sat studying just outside of the gates of an ancient city.
A traveller approached him saying...
�Old man, tell me what are the people like in this city?�
The old man looked up from his reading and said...
�First tell me what the people were like in your home city?�
�The people in my home city were a miserable lot, greedy and mean spirited; they are why I left to wander the cruel world. I have vowed never to return to that horrible place.�
The old man sadly looked up and said...
�Sir I am afraid you will find the people in this city to be much the same.�
The traveller shook his head in disgust and passed through the city gates.
A few minutes later another traveller approached and bowing to the old man
said...
�Venerable one, may I ask you to tell me of the people in this beautiful
place?�
Again the old man asked
�First tell me what the people were like in your home city?�
The young man smiled and said
�It is a place much blessed, the people are kind and generous, I look forward to the time when my travels carry me back home so I can tell them of all the wonders I have seen.�
The old man smiled and said...
�Sir I am happy to tell you will find the people in this city to be much the same. Welcome.�
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-Kahlil Gibran
TL/DR Losers attract losers; winners attract winners. Who do you attract?
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| Um...It doesn't work because by telling the first guy that he would only find greedy, miserable and mean spirited people in the city, the old guy was actually judging the first guy in the same way the first guy judged the people in his city. So the old guy is actually just as bad as the first guy. So why should we take anything from the story? Unless it's the fact that people who set themselves up as wise sages, dispensing advice to others are no better than the rest of us |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Like you I worked and lived in a few countries. The questions you refer to are more dictated by limited English than by anything else. Start conversing in Korean with Koreans and magically the conversation topics open up....go figure. |
I don't agree.
Firstly I'm comparing people with limited English in different countries as my level of the local language was pretty similar to Korean in most places I worked.
Secondly, Koreans who ask questions like 'can you use chopsticks?' Or 'do you like Korean women/kimchi?' have enough language ability to ask any number of other questions in English which would be more original than the ones they do.
Thirdly I've met Koreans with very advanced English language skills here who have also come up with the same old stuff. Not all of course, I'm merely pointing out there seems to be a prevalance here for asking the same questions more so than in other countries. As it paints Koreans in a slightly negative light, you of course would never admit to such a thing. |
Fair enough. Your point is well made. Our experiences differ and while I have heard those comments and questions, I suppose I did not pay all that much attention to them after a while. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Um...It doesn't work because by telling the first guy that he would only find greedy, miserable and mean spirited people in the city, the old guy was actually judging the first guy in the same way the first guy judged the people in his city. So the old guy is actually just as bad as the first guy. So why should we take anything from the story? Unless it's the fact that people who set themselves up as wise sages, dispensing advice to others are no better than the rest of us |
He wasn't judging anyone. I think the old man is speaking from experience, rather than passing judgment. Concluding that such an outcome would happen to the guy, might be clever, but the old man is not clever. The Old Man in this story is wise. Wisdom comes from experience and experience has taught the old man that people who find other people negatively, will do so no matter where they are, where people who have positive outlooks will do so no matter where they are.
Of course the smart man down the way might hit the happy guy over the head with a stick and say "Are you crazy? You're heading into Biff Tannen Hill Valley. And what the heck were you doing listening to that crazy old man. Dude calls his mule his wife, and his wife his mule." |
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caterpillar
Joined: 30 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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I think everyone is missing the obvious point that OP seems to be only dating women.
Clearly he is a sexist.
He should be equally attracted to both men and women, no? |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| He wasn't judging anyone. I think the old man is speaking from experience, rather than passing judgment |
Well, he's judging him in the sense that from a single comment he assumes the guy is someone who generally sees the negative in everybody he meets rather than someone who has had a single unpleasant experience living in a specific place. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
Threads like this and PGB's response when he stated:
| Quote: |
I seriously wonder what Korea some people seem to be living in when I read some of the posts here...
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...make me think of this quote, I think it explains much:
| Quote: |
An old man sat studying just outside of the gates of an ancient city.
A traveller approached him saying...
�Old man, tell me what are the people like in this city?�
The old man looked up from his reading and said...
�First tell me what the people were like in your home city?�
�The people in my home city were a miserable lot, greedy and mean spirited; they are why I left to wander the cruel world. I have vowed never to return to that horrible place.�
The old man sadly looked up and said...
�Sir I am afraid you will find the people in this city to be much the same.�
The traveller shook his head in disgust and passed through the city gates.
A few minutes later another traveller approached and bowing to the old man
said...
�Venerable one, may I ask you to tell me of the people in this beautiful
place?�
Again the old man asked
�First tell me what the people were like in your home city?�
The young man smiled and said
�It is a place much blessed, the people are kind and generous, I look forward to the time when my travels carry me back home so I can tell them of all the wonders I have seen.�
The old man smiled and said...
�Sir I am happy to tell you will find the people in this city to be much the same. Welcome.�
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-Kahlil Gibran
TL/DR Losers attract losers; winners attract winners. Who do you attract?
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A Homosexual left San Francisco for Iran. An Old man asked him why. The Homosexual replied the people in San Francisco were mean. The old man told him if he didn't want to get hung he should probably head back to San Francisco, or another area that doesn't execute homosexuals.
A homosexual left Iran for San Francisco. An old man asked him why. The homosexual replied that they execute homosexuals in Iran. The old man replied "Welcome! Would you like me to recommend some places to pick up some hot guys?"
Different places are more accepting of different behaviors and races. Sometimes it's the people in your immediate surroundings, not you. You might not grasp this if you are a cultural relativist and you have no principles though. You might just go with the flow, follow the pack, live like sheep, be part of the herd, you know what I mean?
People move for reason. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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A Homosexual left San Francisco for Iran. An Old man asked him why. The Homosexual replied the people in San Francisco were mean. The old man told him if he didn't want to get hung he should probably head back to San Francisco, or another area that doesn't execute homosexuals.
A homosexual left Iran for San Francisco. An old man asked him why. The homosexual replied that they execute homosexuals in Iran. The old man replied "Welcome! Would you like me to recommend some places to pick up some hot guys?" |
I think that the point of the parable is to take two equivalent people and to illustrate how the outcome is dependent on their worldview and attitude, not the place they are going. I think its also implied that both travelers come from the same city.
Parables usually don't come with 10 page disclaimers about how the place isn't Mordor or they aren't coming from Utopia and how one guy has AIDs and the other doesn't.
That's not to say there are places where the environment IS responsible for the outcome, but one shouldn't dismiss the possibility that outcome is centered on the individual rather than the environment they are in.
As for Korea, well...I of course lean to the side that its up to the individual. Given that you can get equivalent people from all over the world who can have completely different experiences, it does suggest that individual personalities as well as experiences are more of a factor than the place itself. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| TL/DR Losers attract losers; winners attract winners. Who do you attract? |
More nonsense. This is just another way of saying "you must have deserved it." Spat on, insulted, beaten up, raped, stabbed, murdered? Well I haven't been. You must have done something wrong.
Here's how it does:
1. Denial - It never happened to me so it didn't happen to you.
2. Blame the victim - It never happened to me so it must have been your fault.
3. It happens elsewhere - It happens in America (as if that makes a terrible act acceptable)
and finally
4. Insults - "STOP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS" "IMMATURE WANKER DOUCHE"
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| Given that you can get equivalent people from all over the world who can have completely different experiences, it does suggest that individual personalities as well as experiences are more of a factor than the place itself. |
Hey, SR. I agree that your personality can influence the way you perceive particular situations but there is so much that is out of our control that outside influences have a far larger effect on our influences here. In a country of 50 million people, 10 million of which live in Seoul, the experiences each of us have are bound to be different.
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| outcome is centered on the individual rather than the environment they are in. |
Here's another way to look at it. I think the environment people live in has a huge influence on their behaviour, personality, and outcome. I believe this is shown in Korea by the excessively high suicide rate. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
More nonsense. This is just another way of saying "you must have deserved it." Spat on, insulted, beaten up, raped, stabbed, murdered? Well I haven't been. You must have done something wrong.
Here's how it does:
1. Denial - It never happened to me so it didn't happen to you.
2. Blame the victim - It never happened to me so it must have been your fault.
3. It happens elsewhere - It happens in America (as if that makes a terrible act acceptable)
and finally
4. Insults - "STOP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS" "IMMATURE WANKER DOUCHE"
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1. Never said it doesn't happen here. Obviously it does. Dave's has many posters that have negative experiences in Korea. Not denying they do.
2. I'm not placing fault on anyone. I'm simply proposing possibilities to consider.
3. I don't really care what happens elsewhere. I do think that some things are simply more human issues than specific to one region or nationality.
4. I don't understand this one. Sorry.
Lots of people have positive experiences in Korea. Instead of trying to discredit their experiences simply because they don't agree with what you have observed to this point, why not try to identify the contributing variables that lead to such different outcomes? Just a thought. Good luck.
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