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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| seansmith wrote: |
I'm working at an international school in Shanghai (having left Korea in 2007). A recruiter from The University of British Columbia (UBC) came to pitch/promote UBC to our Grade 12 students. I talked to him about teaching jobs in Canada. He said without a trace of humour or irony that "there were jobs in the Arctic."
A Vancouver Sun article earlier this year noted that there were 2700 teachers in B.C. applying for only 1000 openings. Things are bleak. People sub, but they only get called every second day, earning about $15,000 per year. A new term has emerged to describe this sad state: Professional Poverty. And if you start subbing and do it for more than 2 years, a school principal just sees you as a sub, not a teacher who can handle a real subject course load. Anyway as some poster(s) have noted you need to have a teaching certification to be eligible anyway.
You veteran ESLers should be worried about a not-so-new term: Credential Creep. You will increasingly need higher qualifications to get jobs that didn't require these qualifications 5 or 10 years ago. If you don't "upgrade" you could be in trouble, or at least boxed out of jobs that you want. |
It's what happens when supply outstrips demand. A bad economy gradually creeps into everyone's life, no matter how sheltered against the storm you think you are. You merely delay it for a time, but if it goes on for a long time, it eventually finds you. This prolonged global downturn is beating us all down. Had it of been short, we'd all be back on cloud nine like before. But it isn't because the world's politicians are stupid snivering cowards too timid to make tough choices and get things back on track.
Credential creep happens to all fields and jobs when there stops being employee shortages. You take on tons of debt to make the same or even less money. It's a totally raw deal. I had spent some time hoping we'd get back to pre 2009 times, but events seem to conspire to make the last few years the new normal. It means we had better have a plan. If I'm going to take on more debt and re-training, it's going to be for something that pays good money back home, not to get a 2 million won university job.
I'm in a good or at least ok situation for the time being, but will need a long term plan for the other side. If ESL is going down, getting married here and having kids is not going to be an option as I suspect some guys trapped here in 10 to 20 years time will be pleading poverty. My only regret personally was getting here just at the end of the ride. Had a couple of decent years and spent the next 3 or 4 years hoping for a return to the good old days. My guess is now those days are never coming back. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
That's right, always blame the individual. If wages are stagnating, then obviously the individual is just not working hard enough.
It is a tough economy out there. A lot of businesses are feeling the crunch and salaries are being pinched. Korean workers have less money to spend on education and the government has been working hard to alleviate costs by creating more opportunities and more competition into the education market.
The reality is it is harder for many NETs in Korea to make a living. |
And a huge drop in the birthrate. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| The longer you stay, the harder it is to go back home. Been away for nearly a decade and while I'm not sure about staying in Korea forever, I highly doubt I'll go back to the US after this. Not really sure where to go. |
I read on the international section of Dave's a post from a longtimer who said worldwide salaries in the ESL industry are going down. The same poster in another thread wrote:
| Quote: |
| VERY difficult to get into another line after TEFLing around. I tried. I returned to TEFLing after unsuccessful attempts to change career path |
Very sad. |
Wages should go down--think about it, we are paid to speak in our native language. That's IT! We are paid because we hit the location-of-birth lottery. Here, we are hired farmhands moreorless. A greeter at Walmart. A bell shaker for the Salvation Army. A bag boy at the supermarket. A cleaning lady. A telemarketer. You get the picture.
The only reason we are paid what we are is because we had the sack to leave our families for a year (or more) and agree to board a plane and travel here. But when we step off the plane that's where it all evens out. We blend in with the grandpas collecting cardboard on the street. |
Speak for yourself. Some of us have BAs, MAs, and PhDs in English education. We don't just "speak". |
I'm speaking to you too *as well as myself* because I am licensed in America with a Middle School Education degree...IN ENGLISH. |
Then there is NO reason for you to be stuck at some 2.3 job..... |
Well the problem is I can't commute all over Korea looking for an international school. I can pick up some side jobs, but what else can I do for a day job? Not much. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I know folks who are certified working in high-end kiddies making 2.7, and their students are extremely high level (able to write essays, etc.). Alternatively, there are afternoon hagwons out there that look for more skills and are willing to pay for them. Those are just a couple options. As a certified teacher, you really do have a lot of options. If you're not certified, you either need an exit strategy or be working towards some kind of certification, even if that's just a CELTA. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| I know folks who are certified working in high-end kiddies making 2.7, and their students are extremely high level (able to write essays, etc.). Alternatively, there are afternoon hagwons out there that look for more skills and are willing to pay for them. Those are just a couple options. As a certified teacher, you really do have a lot of options. If you're not certified, you either need an exit strategy or be working towards some kind of certification, even if that's just a CELTA. |
That's pretty low for a certified teacher. A certified teacher can pack up and go to the Middle East, international schools, etc. If I were certified, I'd be asking 3.5 Million or finding another country to teach in. I'm not taking on extra debt and giving up a year and half of my life not earning income to only make slightly more. I'd only make that kind of sacrifice to make a lot more. (An in class TESOL is the most I'd spend to keep teaching in this kind of market and even that's stretching it.) To each their own, I guess. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| I know folks who are certified working in high-end kiddies making 2.7, and their students are extremely high level (able to write essays, etc.). Alternatively, there are afternoon hagwons out there that look for more skills and are willing to pay for them. Those are just a couple options. As a certified teacher, you really do have a lot of options. If you're not certified, you either need an exit strategy or be working towards some kind of certification, even if that's just a CELTA. |
That's pretty low for a certified teacher. A certified teacher can pack up and go to the Middle East, international schools, etc. If I were certified, I'd be asking 3.5 Million or finding another country to teach in. I'm not taking on extra debt and giving up a year and half of my life not earning income to only make slightly more. I'd only make that kind of sacrifice to make a lot more. (An in class TESOL is the most I'd spend to keep teaching in this kind of market and even that's stretching it.) To each their own, I guess. |
Of course it's low, but that's my point: Dodge is bitching that he's stuck in 2.3 million purgatory because his only options are the crappy after school gig he's in or an international school job which is too far away or difficult to get. There's certainly a middle ground that is extremely easily attainable where he could make more for a more rewarding job. If you're going back to school for a teaching degree, I hope you get more than a raise of a couple hundred bucks with the same crappy benefits. |
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:50 pm Post subject: absurd thread |
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This thread is absurd. Salaries in Korea are rising. I'm seeing salaries in the 2.6-2.8 million won range for just regular jobs. Vets with connections (which you should have) should never have a problem landing good jobs.
There are tens of thousands of good jobs available in Korea and anyone foreign with a pulse will get one. A quick look at job section confirms that.
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| I know folks who are certified working in high-end kiddies making 2.7, and their students are extremely high level (able to write essays, etc.). Alternatively, there are afternoon hagwons out there that look for more skills and are willing to pay for them. Those are just a couple options. As a certified teacher, you really do have a lot of options. If you're not certified, you either need an exit strategy or be working towards some kind of certification, even if that's just a CELTA. |
That's pretty low for a certified teacher. A certified teacher can pack up and go to the Middle East, international schools, etc. If I were certified, I'd be asking 3.5 Million or finding another country to teach in. I'm not taking on extra debt and giving up a year and half of my life not earning income to only make slightly more. I'd only make that kind of sacrifice to make a lot more. (An in class TESOL is the most I'd spend to keep teaching in this kind of market and even that's stretching it.) To each their own, I guess. |
Of course it's low, but that's my point: Dodge is bitching that he's stuck in 2.3 million purgatory because his only options are the crappy after school gig he's in or an international school job which is too far away or difficult to get. There's certainly a middle ground that is extremely easily attainable where he could make more for a more rewarding job. If you're going back to school for a teaching degree, I hope you get more than a raise of a couple hundred bucks with the same crappy benefits. |
You won't in Korea. The problem in Korea is their aren't enough international schools or private schools (I don't mean hogwons). 90% of the jobs are entry level at 2.3 and maybe you get a job up to 2.7. That's not worth getting a degree for. You may as well get a different degree, say accounting, and get a non-teaching job back home (or learn welding, for instance).
And look at the uni salaries, they suck. They're not serious employers, they are 1 year contracts with low wages. They aren't something really to aim for. The dreamed for high salary university job, I don't think it really exists. Or you get the regular low salary uni job and have to hussle to make more. That's possible for say 5 years, but isn't a long term plan, and good luck doing it with a family (you'll probably be getting a divorce).
I don't think people should be working on how to create a long term in Korea, they should be planning a long term back home. Their are long terms there. |
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Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
The problem in Korea is their aren't enough international schools or private schools
have to hussle to make more.
Their are long terms there
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Seriously bro? |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| ^^yes bro. |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Creeper and Whose your daddy are both out of touch with reality - tho Daddy is accurate in most of what he says, he is wrong about the salaries being advertised.
Thank Godot I never have to look for a job in Korea again and I pity those are doing it - just for info I looked at as many Korean Engrish job sites on the web and 90 percent of the jobs are NOT in the 2.3 million won category.
The going prices that most hagwons except for those SAT preparation ones etc are offering are in the range of 2.1 - 2.2 million won per month with a minority giving 2.3 million or more if you are 'lucky'. School system jobs are also less than adequate for all the hours involved, they advertise 2.3 or more but many Engrish teachers will make only 2.3 at school teaching level.
As for Creeper's garbage - why bother posting here? The job market has got amazingly tight in Korea. I know very good teachers both in Korea and in their home countries who can't get a look in at any Engrish teaching job in Korea because it seems they've got too much experience and aren't grads with crap resumes.
The Engrish job market in Korea is in clear decline, crap wages, crap conditions and shrinking opps for anybody who is competent and not under 30. Why bother? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| The longer you stay, the harder it is to go back home. Been away for nearly a decade and while I'm not sure about staying in Korea forever, I highly doubt I'll go back to the US after this. Not really sure where to go. |
I read on the international section of Dave's a post from a longtimer who said worldwide salaries in the ESL industry are going down. The same poster in another thread wrote:
| Quote: |
| VERY difficult to get into another line after TEFLing around. I tried. I returned to TEFLing after unsuccessful attempts to change career path |
Very sad. |
Wages should go down--think about it, we are paid to speak in our native language. That's IT! We are paid because we hit the location-of-birth lottery. Here, we are hired farmhands moreorless. A greeter at Walmart. A bell shaker for the Salvation Army. A bag boy at the supermarket. A cleaning lady. A telemarketer. You get the picture.
The only reason we are paid what we are is because we had the sack to leave our families for a year (or more) and agree to board a plane and travel here. But when we step off the plane that's where it all evens out. We blend in with the grandpas collecting cardboard on the street. |
Speak for yourself. Some of us have BAs, MAs, and PhDs in English education. We don't just "speak". |
I'm speaking to you too *as well as myself* because I am licensed in America with a Middle School Education degree...IN ENGLISH. |
Then there is NO reason for you to be stuck at some 2.3 job..... |
Well the problem is I can't commute all over Korea looking for an international school. I can pick up some side jobs, but what else can I do for a day job? Not much. |
Who said anything about communting all over Korea??? Seriously Dodge with your qualifications, credentials and experience you should be doing far, far better than 2.3. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Who said anything about communting all over Korea??? Seriously Dodge with your qualifications, credentials and experience you should be doing far, far better than 2.3. |
Not to mention an F visa. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| The longer you stay, the harder it is to go back home. Been away for nearly a decade and while I'm not sure about staying in Korea forever, I highly doubt I'll go back to the US after this. Not really sure where to go. |
I read on the international section of Dave's a post from a longtimer who said worldwide salaries in the ESL industry are going down. The same poster in another thread wrote:
| Quote: |
| VERY difficult to get into another line after TEFLing around. I tried. I returned to TEFLing after unsuccessful attempts to change career path |
Very sad. |
Wages should go down--think about it, we are paid to speak in our native language. That's IT! We are paid because we hit the location-of-birth lottery. Here, we are hired farmhands moreorless. A greeter at Walmart. A bell shaker for the Salvation Army. A bag boy at the supermarket. A cleaning lady. A telemarketer. You get the picture.
The only reason we are paid what we are is because we had the sack to leave our families for a year (or more) and agree to board a plane and travel here. But when we step off the plane that's where it all evens out. We blend in with the grandpas collecting cardboard on the street. |
Speak for yourself. Some of us have BAs, MAs, and PhDs in English education. We don't just "speak". |
I'm speaking to you too *as well as myself* because I am licensed in America with a Middle School Education degree...IN ENGLISH. |
Then there is NO reason for you to be stuck at some 2.3 job..... |
Exactly. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| The longer you stay, the harder it is to go back home. Been away for nearly a decade and while I'm not sure about staying in Korea forever, I highly doubt I'll go back to the US after this. Not really sure where to go. |
I read on the international section of Dave's a post from a longtimer who said worldwide salaries in the ESL industry are going down. The same poster in another thread wrote:
| Quote: |
| VERY difficult to get into another line after TEFLing around. I tried. I returned to TEFLing after unsuccessful attempts to change career path |
Very sad. |
Wages should go down--think about it, we are paid to speak in our native language. That's IT! We are paid because we hit the location-of-birth lottery. Here, we are hired farmhands moreorless. A greeter at Walmart. A bell shaker for the Salvation Army. A bag boy at the supermarket. A cleaning lady. A telemarketer. You get the picture.
The only reason we are paid what we are is because we had the sack to leave our families for a year (or more) and agree to board a plane and travel here. But when we step off the plane that's where it all evens out. We blend in with the grandpas collecting cardboard on the street. |
Speak for yourself. Some of us have BAs, MAs, and PhDs in English education. We don't just "speak". |
I'm speaking to you too *as well as myself* because I am licensed in America with a Middle School Education degree...IN ENGLISH. |
Then there is NO reason for you to be stuck at some 2.3 job..... |
Well the problem is I can't commute all over Korea looking for an international school. I can pick up some side jobs, but what else can I do for a day job? Not much. |
If you really wanted a job at an international school, you would be a bit more proactive. Side jobs? Don't have a steady day job? Dude, who do you have to blame for that? |
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