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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
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| I'd love to hear about the Russian or Chinese made jet that has managed to down the F-22s predecessor, the F-15, in Air-to-Air combat. |
This video seems to think the F-22s are useless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27qdB1D0s9M
There is also this quote:
Roger Cliff, senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation, states that "What we need is to be able to put 25 jets in the air and take down 75 of theirs, without many losses. But it�s just not going to be that one-sided anymore" and "We have become accustomed to a world where our air power is dominant, but that dominance is now in question."
If Russia and or China get involved there's a good chance things can go wrong very quickly for the US. The US haven't exactly impressed with their recent war history.
I'm scared of North Korea because they could set off a chain of events which result in world war 3. None of us know what will happen. We can make guesses but nobody knows. |
That video was about the F-35. Be that as it may, the F-22 is a completely different aircraft.
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-JSF-Analysis.html
The USA won't export F-22s and for a reason. They are keeping the best for themselves. And as I understand it the F-35 presented for export will be someways below the domestic F-35 in respect to stealth.
Whether the F-35 is suitable for Australia is an entirely different issue. Note the 'visual range' qualifier to the discussion, and the focus on range. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
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| I'd love to hear about the Russian or Chinese made jet that has managed to down the F-22s predecessor, the F-15, in Air-to-Air combat. |
This video seems to think the F-22s are useless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27qdB1D0s9M
There is also this quote:
Roger Cliff, senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation, states that "What we need is to be able to put 25 jets in the air and take down 75 of theirs, without many losses. But it�s just not going to be that one-sided anymore" and "We have become accustomed to a world where our air power is dominant, but that dominance is now in question."
If Russia and or China get involved there's a good chance things can go wrong very quickly for the US. The US haven't exactly impressed with their recent war history.
I'm scared of North Korea because they could set off a chain of events which result in world war 3. None of us know what will happen. We can make guesses but nobody knows. |
What I find amazing is that they were able to get 100 F-35s to participate in these exercises in 2008 considering only 6 had been built as of 2009 and only about 60 built as of 2013.
It's also remarkable that during these exercises, every single F-22 in existence apparently participated.
I call shenanigans. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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javis
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
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| I'd love to hear about the Russian or Chinese made jet that has managed to down the F-22s predecessor, the F-15, in Air-to-Air combat. |
This video seems to think the F-22s are useless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27qdB1D0s9M |
I'm LOLing at a video from an account called PowerRossiya making supposedly objective comparisons of modern Sukhois versus US aircraft based on a computer simulation of a mass air battle.
Especially since the video consists of 3 minutes of TV news recap and 7 minutes of Russian plane porn.... |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Minor concern in China? You're joking, right? China has been seen beefing-up its forces along the border with North Korea.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/1/showdown-looming-china-mobilizing-troops-jets-near/
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The Chinese military activities near North Korea were detected in Jilin Province, and intelligence reports from the area on March 19 indicated that PLA forces were ordered to go to �Level One� alert status, the highest level of readiness.
Large groups of soldiers were seen on the streets in Ji�an, a city in Jilin, amid reports that the PLA had been ordered to combat readiness status.
PLA heavy armored vehicles, including tanks and armored personnel carriers, were reported moving near the Yalu River that separates China from North Korea.
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
Minor concern in China? You're joking, right? China has been seen beefing-up its forces along the border with North Korea.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/1/showdown-looming-china-mobilizing-troops-jets-near/
| Quote: |
The Chinese military activities near North Korea were detected in Jilin Province, and intelligence reports from the area on March 19 indicated that PLA forces were ordered to go to �Level One� alert status, the highest level of readiness.
Large groups of soldiers were seen on the streets in Ji�an, a city in Jilin, amid reports that the PLA had been ordered to combat readiness status.
PLA heavy armored vehicles, including tanks and armored personnel carriers, were reported moving near the Yalu River that separates China from North Korea.
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Notable is the complete lack of joint exercises between the PLA and the KPA in marked contrast to the Foal Eagle exercises now taking place with the US and South Korea.
If China was "firmly behind their ally" you'd see Chinese ships, tanks, and planes side by side with North Korean ones for all the world to see. Instead you have China building Chinese controlled bridges into North Korea in defiance of Pyongyang, military exercises that seem to also be disrupting trade (and practicing for dealing with refugees) and making a token attempt at enforcing the new embargo, and vague decelerations of support coupled with vague statements denouncing Nork actions from Beijing. Not exactly Cuba, 1962.
China of course, does want to demonstrate a willingness to back an ally. At the same time it is clearly utterly exasperated with North Korea and the reality is that trade between South Korea and North Korea far outstrips that of the North, to say nothing of the Norks plans to start mining rare-Earth metals and exporting them, cutting into China's dominance. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm worried about China, too. We don't know what their reaction would be if anything happens. There are millions of innocent people in North Korea who would try to flee. What would happen to these poor sods? |
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augustine
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Location: México
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I often think steelrails is a bonehead when it comes to a lot of matters relating to Korea, but he's right on target on this one. There are far too many interests between the US, China, and SK and anything this pathetic and poor little propaganda state does or tries to do will be halted very quickly by either China, the US, or likely both. To the two big players who have the power in this region, there is no reason to allow or create more conflict than there already is. They just want to keep things running smoothly for the time being. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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People made arguments similar to yours 50+ years ago when China massed far more at the border... oh, China will do nothing....
yeah, right.
A little geography for you, guys... China is connected to Korea, and has enough (as in all) of their military assets right here in Asia.
They have no need to hold exercises with the North. |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think that the situation in China is different enough between 1950 and now to make that comparison a bit of a stretch. We aren't talking about the USA invading North Korea and driving all the way North to the border either.
If China intercedes, what then? Would you claim that they will back North Korea and invade the South? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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People made arguments similar to yours 50+ years ago when China massed far more at the border... oh, China will do nothing....
yeah, right. |
50+ years ago China was an agrarian peasant society just finished with Japanese occupation and a brutal civil war and lead by Mao. Oh yeah, and there was this thing called the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact.
Do you really think that 50 years ago applies today?
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| hey have no need to hold exercises with the North. |
What an utterly moronic statement. In order for militaries to function properly they have to train. In order for the militaries of two countries to work together and achieve common goals, they have to train together. That's why the U.S. trains with the ROK constantly. It's so that when an actual war starts, people and screaming over the radio, using different codes and procedures, confused about what to do, and blowing each other up and crashing into each other.
Good grief, get a clue. |
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goreality
Joined: 09 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Who's to say China and Russia didn't finally give the green light to America.
America: Hey guys let us go into Syria or Iran, the populous is tired of our other business.
Russia & China: No, enough trouble specially in Middle East recently
America: Ok, but we want to blow something up.
Russia & China: How about that fat kid, he has been pissing everyone off recently and doesn't really do anything for us.
America: Thanks, so we gonna make it look all like he did it and you want to promote peace?
Russia & China: Yeah whatever just keep it contained and don't build any bases north of the 38th. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Threequalseven wrote: |
| First, how much military power does NK even have? They don't even have military aircraft. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Air_Force
North Korea has more than triple the number of military aircraft as South Korea.
South Korea's air force:
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| The ROKAF has about 500 combat aircraft |
North Korea's air force:
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| between 1,600 and 1,700 aircraft of different types |
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Le sigh. This is what happens when you have statistics without the expertise to analyze the data. |
Excuse me, but who made the more ridiculous statement?
This dude (a constant ultra apologist)?:
| Threequalseven wrote: |
| First, how much military power does NK even have? They don't even have military aircraft. |
Or me as I gave a factual objective response? (You seem more bothered by my response.)
Anyway, if you want me to give some commentary, I will. Just because something is old doesn't mean it is worthless. Jimi Hendrix made music a long time ago on "old" equipment, and it still sounds good to listeners today. The U.S. dropped two bombs on Japan and thousands of people died. This was in 1945 (roughly 70 years ago). North Korea has the capacity to cause serious damage. They are not a total joke.
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Retired General Walter Sharp, former Commander of the U.S. Forces Korea, says South Korean and U.S. forces should beef up both their defense AND offensive capabilities against North Korea.
During a forum on Thursday hosted by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington-based think tank,the retired general said that North Korea is more threatening today than it was several years ago and warned that the communist nation is approaching the ability to attack anywhere in the world with nuclear-tipped missiles. |
http://www.arirang.co.kr/News/News_View.asp?nseq=145144 |
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