Korean Job Discussion Forums

[12ax7]

Well, I know one guy who went to China after being here for nearly 10 years. He's now back after just 6 months. I totally understand. I've been to China and it was an underwhelming experience.

[sph274]

Ok so next year I will be participating in an english teaching program through the Spanish government. It doesnt pay reall well I just want to perfect my spanish and live i spai for a year or two, possibly do fulbright in india after year one or two(or fulbright somewhere). But considering the decline in th Korean job market do you see this happening in China within 2-4 years? If it does, do you think a similar market will open up elsewhere( ie vietnam Indonesia Singapore)? I really dont care about money right now but to a certajn extent this lackadaisical attitude is due to the idea that after I have my fun, I can go to Asia and make my money to pay off student loans. Is this short sighted? I am just trying to understand the lay of the land from people who know what they are talking about. I may jojn the Peace Corps in two years as well. I am really just inquiring on the long term viability of ESL

[Moondoggy]

[nukeday]

Living in Beijing, I make 16,000 RMB a month (no housing) and I'm saving less than I did when I was making 2.4 million won (with housing) in Seoul.

Lot's of reasons for this. Maybe I travel slightly more, but I definitely drink less (I work weekends now).

Taxes are higher in China, and you pay into a pension that isn't matched by your employer...and it's questionable whether you get the money back in the end. You also don't usually get a month's pay as an end of contract bonus.

Rent, in Beijing, to me seems to get you a lot less for the same amount of money than it does in Seoul. You might get a bigger place, but it'll tend to be in an older, more rundown building. My biggest expense, and the expense that irks me the most. There's also a lot of haggling you have to do - landlords and real estate agents often try to fleece "rich" foreigners.

The nightlife in Beijing (and other Chinese cities I've visited on vacation) gets stale really fast too. The Chinese mainly drink in restaurants so if you go to a bar you'll only see tourists or other foreigners - and pay tourist/foreigner prices. If you do see a group of Chinese people out they'll usually be in a really noisy nightclub playing dice. I have to admit I miss the Korean nightlife.

Anyway, as another poster often says, don't come to China if it's just for the money. It might be a lot less than you expect!

[nukeday]

To give some of you an idea of deductions and such. My last paycheck went like this:

Gross 17886 (including bonuses)
Deductions
Pension 1121.28 - will I get it back when I leave? Who knows
Medical 283.32
Unemployment 28.03
Income Tax 1908.34 (!!!! How much is it in Korea these days? I remember it being under 100,000 won)

Net: 14545.03...and keep in mind I still have rent to pay. Over 3000 rmb in deductions.

So I'm netting a couple hundred dollars USD more than I was in Seoul, but in Seoul my housing was taking care of.

It's not bad and I'm not struggling by any means, but depending on your lifestyle, again, I was saving more in Seoul.

[lowpo]

[nukeday]

Because my company doesnt offer housing and my base pay is higher than other figures quoted in this thread.

If the company paid rent, i can only imagine the hovel i'd be living in. Sure happened to me that way in korea once.

[Weigookin74]

[Weigookin74]

My deductions total nine per cent here. Yours there total 18 per cent. I'm rather surprised by that. China keeps that up and soon the jobs will be going back to America. Lol. But if the cost of living is still cheaper because of being a poorer country and no hassles sending money home, then maybe China wil be the wave of the future. I had seen an ad showing nice apartments in Beijing maybe for 4 or 5 K RMB.

[spaceman82]

Those taxes, etc., are quite high. How much does the lower(?) cost of living make up for that. Also, I've read in several places that it's quite difficult to wire money out of China. Any truth to that?

[Weigookin74]

[byrddogs]

I'll tackle a few of the things mentioned in this thread recently.

Wiring money out isn't so easy. Laowai (waegooks) are only allowed a max of $500usd per day if they do it on their own. You can have a C national do it for you (not sure what the max is if there is one). I went with the wife a few months ago, and even though I'm married to a local the foreigner thing applied to me being able to wire above $500 that day. My wife had to wire the money (much more than the foreigner allowed amount) to my overseas account.

Taxes are a bit high here. There is a sliding scale based on salary. Foreigners are exempt from taxes on the first 4800rmb and there is an additional tax credit. It is explained here: http://www.expat-blog.com/en/guide/asia/china/827-tax-in-china.html I still pay way less in taxes than in my home country. China tried to implement that additional social insurance/pension tax mentioned by a poster above nationwide, but only a few localities are collecting it; Shanghai is not one of those at this time.

My apartment in a newer popular development that I chose where I wanted to live in Shanghai is way nicer and much, much larger than anything I lived in in Seoul (all places provided by employers there). The cost of monthly rent is similar. My current apt is 130sqm (1500 sqf) with 3 bedrooms and 2 full baths. I get a housing allowance of 5500rmb in addition to my salary that is not taxed. I use this to pay all my housing related bills.

The cost of living is somewhat similar in Shanghai and Seoul. If you want to live like you did back home, then you will pay for that. Going out to western restaurants and bars will certainly eat at your savings. If you live a little more local then you can save. My wife and I cook at home a lot, but we still eat out at western, Korean, other Asian and Chinese restaurants as well. We can find any vegetable or fruit here for reasonable prices, unlike Seoul. I can find practically any western cooking ingredient or food stuff that I want. I'm also able to find many more western products easily. Transportation is cheap and convenient, just like Seoul.

When it is all said and done, I am able to save quite a bit more here in Shanghai than I did in Seoul working in public schools at the top end of the pay scale while living much more comfortably. My salary is higher, I get a lot more time off and can choose my own housing. Keep in mind my job is probably not the norm for a teacher. It does give perspective for an experienced and qualified ESL teacher though.

[lemak]

Just some points to note - There's a lot of variation between provincial rules and contract conditions from workplace to workplace unlike Korea where they often just cut and paste a contract from another school and change the names. Not all schools/cities/provinces have adopted the new social welfare scheme yet. Most haven't, in fact....Nukeday's deductions whilst legitimate won't apply to everyone. My school did sign us on for it, but as a result of not mentioning anything about it in the contract and the FTs getting all cantankerous were forced to foot the bill themselves meaning we get the additional insurance and the 250 buck pharmacy/hospital credit for free. Doesn't sound like much, but it goes a long way in China.

My personal situation is to do my primary, legal, visa sponsoring job at a university. That brings in 5,500rmb/month (around 1,000,000 won). Of which I pay about $3 in tax.

For this I work 12 classes / week (around 9 hours) which consists of no classes Monday, 1.5 hours Tuesday, 3 hours Wednesday, nothing Thursday and 4.5 hours on Friday. Ordinary pay, but the work is basically a hobby. I spend more time sitting on the crapper.

On top of this I teach 4 hours on Sunday afternoon at a private kid's school for 180rmb/hour. That's 33,000 won/hour and more or less standard pay in my town for privates. Not technically legal, but being outside a tier 1 city the "rules" are ignored. Likely I'm teaching the kids of one or two PSB officers. For this I pay no tax.

Between my legal job and my "illegal" one I teach 13 hours / week and get paid 8,500rmb/month. That's 1,560,000 won per month. From this my mandatory deductions are 3,300 won. All other expenses are covered by the school. Just pay for food and travel.

Today I was offered an additional job teaching IELTS for 2.5 hours per day, M~F @ 180/hour also which would have meant an additional 10,000rmb per month. I said no since the school is on the other side of town and didn't fancy the hour long commute each way, but in hindsight could have just taken it and used the proceeds to buy a used car or e-bike. Never mind.
That would have meant I'd be making 18,500rmb (3.4 mil won) per month with essentially no tax.

Before anyone gets confused and accuses me of bragging it's nothing of the sort. I *refused* the extra work since I'm lazy. Just pointing out that it IS there if you have the time and inclination to do it.

In my book that's the key to the $ and to avoid the large deductions. Take a low houred gig as your primary job, a place to provide housing and the visa and then make up the extra pay from side jobs. Leave if the part time work is crap or something better or more conveniently located comes along.

As it stands $3 tax off 1,400 bucks or so per month is laughable.

China does have its faults. They make the Korean lunatic drivers look like old grannies on the way to church, make Korea's filthy air look as spotless as the Amazon rainforest, and some of the Chinese hospitals and public bathrooms are real third world crap, a significant enough percentage of the locals could have very easily been transplanted directly from a 5th century BC cave. Just drag them out and put an Iphone in their hands....Voila!...but as far as moneymaking potential it *is* out there if you are looking. If you just want to sit around home and watch movies or drink beer on the balcony for 95% of your week that option exists also.

Anyhow each to their own. If people are happy in Korea then stay in Korea. For the time being no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to relocate to either place.

[nukeday]

[Weigookin74]