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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:35 am Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| Unposter wrote: |
| I'd just like to congratulate Swampfox on his child. I hope the home and family provides a lifetime of comfort! |
Nice. I didn't know he just had a child. Congratulations Swampfox! |
Thx... she is 3 now, in Western age. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| There was just an article in the WSJ about the falling real estate market in Korea. My mainstream news theory is that if it has finally made it into the papers, it has long since been established as fact. Rarely have I been proven wrong. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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On the flip side, I just saw a place in Bluffton, SC, about 5 minutes north of Hilton Head, come back on the market for 570K OBO (anothe site has it listed at 557.5K). The last time it sold was for 1.1 million....in 2000! Serious digs with a killer view.
THAT'S what I think about when I think about property in Korea. What would I get for 600 million here? Crap, that's what. And it is the main reason that we'd consider a move to N. American if a position came up. At least if I drop 500K-700K in many U.S. areas or Canada, even Vancouver or Toronto, we'd have something to show for it and ammenities to boot. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
| There was just an article in the WSJ about the falling real estate market in Korea. My mainstream news theory is that if it has finally made it into the papers, it has long since been established as fact. |
Agreed. Once it is news it is already history. |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
On the flip side, I just saw a place in Bluffton, SC, about 5 minutes north of Hilton Head, come back on the market for 570K OBO (anothe site has it listed at 557.5K). The last time it sold was for 1.1 million....in 2000! Serious digs with a killer view.
THAT'S what I think about when I think about property in Korea. What would I get for 600 million here? Crap, that's what. And it is the main reason that we'd consider a move to N. American if a position came up. At least if I drop 500K-700K in many U.S. areas or Canada, even Vancouver or Toronto, we'd have something to show for it and ammenities to boot. |
Yeah, but then you'd have to live in SC. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Fantastic place to be as long as you don't have to worry about education for your kids and you can dodge religion questions diplomatically. Low taxes, low cost of living...what's not to like. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ Isn't that one of the "fat states"? |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
| Fantastic place to be as long as you don't have to worry about education for your kids and you can dodge religion questions diplomatically. Low taxes, low cost of living...what's not to like. |
Can't really compare, I'm assuming Seoul, to SC. I mean, you can get a huge house in Texas compared to a tiny apartment in NY or a small house in LA. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| LOL..primarily the reason I don't want to live in NY or LA! |
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PaperTiger
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: Ulaanbataar
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| Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
| There was just an article in the WSJ about the falling real estate market in Korea. My mainstream news theory is that if it has finally made it into the papers, it has long since been established as fact. Rarely have I been proven wrong. |
If a story like that has made into the headlines of mainstream media, it's typically much worse than what the headlines claim it is...no? |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Congratulations, you just made exactly the same point. |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:46 am Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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NPS was participating? That's hilarious. Time to stop viewing construction projects as low-risk investments, at least for the time being.
And the KORAIL thing, this really should be bigger news because it's essentially a case of bailing out TBTF all over again, no? To the tune of 20 billion-ish dollars. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| slothrop wrote: |
yongsan project update...
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2013/04/123_133589.html
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Yongsan project to be scrapped By Na Jeong-ju
The country�s largest-ever development project has collapsed, and will be liquidated.
The state rail firm KORAIL, the largest stakeholder with 25 percent, said Monday it has decided to pull out of the project.
The decision, made unanimously at a company board meeting, came after it failed to narrow its differences with private investors, led by Samsung Group�s construction arm Samsung C&T, over how to finance the scheme, previously valued at $28.7 billion.
After the project was launched in 2007 to a big fanfare, KORAIL received about 2.4 trillion won ($209 million) from other investors in return for providing its land in Yongsan, central Seoul, where they sought to build an upscale business district.
The firm said it will return the money, and reclaim ownership over the land.
�The money will be fully paid back by September,� a company spokesman said.
On March 14, Dream Hub, a special purpose company the shareholders jointly set up in 2007 to implement the project, failed to pay interest of some 5.9 billion won on bonds it issued, raising concerns about possible bankruptcy. Dream Hub raised capital of 1 trillion won ($907 million), but it has eroded completely.
To keep the project afloat, KORAIL offered a deal to Samsung C&T to raise fresh funds. However, that was rejected by other shareholders, who claimed they couldn�t afford to spend more money, citing the prolonged economic slump and the uncertain outlook for the housing market.
Including some operating costs each firm has since spent, the net loss from the project may total some 1.5 trillion won, industry sources said, adding a string of lawsuits between shareholders is inevitable.
Damage for residents could be even greater.
Home and land prices around Yongsan Station have almost doubled since 2007. If the bubble bursts, the impact will be huge not only on the property markets, but also on people�s lives.
KORAIL may suffer capital erosion because it is already heavily indebted. In that case, the government will have to spend taxpayers� money to rescue the state firm. As of the end of 2011, KORAIL�s capital was 8.7 trillion won. However, it had already issued bonds worth 8 trillion won and has some 11 trillion won in debts.
All other investors have lost their money. They include Lotte Tour, which invested some 150 billion won; the National Pension Service (NPS), with 125 billion won; KB Asset Management, 100 billion won; Prudential Real Estate Investment, 77 billion won; Mirae Asset Financial Group, 49 billion won; Samsung Life Insurance, 30 billion won; and Woori Bank, 20 billion won.
Builders which participated in the project have also suffered damage. Samsung C&T lost 64 billion won, while GS Engineering & Construction, Hyundai Development and Kumho Industrial also lost some 20 billion won apiece. |
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As usual, this story doesn't make sense. If KORAIL is giving investors back their money, how are investors losing money and how are the construction companies losing so much money? And an earlier story said Lotte Tour was forced out because it wasn't deemed large and experienced enough for the project and that it was at least partially bought out by KORAIL.
This looks more like a botched project, grandiose and vainglorious in the Korean tradition, that was fu##ed from the get-go rather than a sign that the RE bubbles is bursting. |
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