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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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 Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Fail.
That link is from 1991... |
You need to look past page 1. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Fail.
That link is from 1991... |
You need to look past page 1. |
No, the whole article is from 1991.
It talks about Kim Il Sung being in charge for goodness sakes. It refers to the Soviet Union in the present tense. It refers to North Korean nuclear weapons in the future tense.
Talk about an epic fail. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| You asked for a list of weapons. You got it. Also a list of past exports. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| You asked for a list of weapons. You got it. Also a list of past exports. |
The issue is, is the North Korean military poorly maintained now. We are talking about recent exports. Within the last decade. Not when Kim Il Sung and Saddam Hussein were still alive, Gorbachev was the leader of the USSR, and Bosnia wasn't on the map.
Again, the Soviet Union was still supporting North Korea at the time this article was written. It hadn't yet been hit by famine.
Did you even read your article? What a pathetic attempt at trying to save face. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
There's not a lot you can do to defend yourself from a heavy chem attack if you happen to be in Seoul. Not much at all. |
| nuthatch wrote: |
or radiation...
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Both off topic. If any of this happens, the DPRK will cease to exist. This is known by the DPRK leadership. It's that simple. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| You asked for a list of weapons. You got it. Also a list of past exports. |
The issue is, is the North Korean military poorly maintained now. We are talking about recent exports. Within the last decade. Not when Kim Il Sung and Saddam Hussein were still alive, Gorbachev was the leader of the USSR, and Bosnia wasn't on the map.
Again, the Soviet Union was still supporting North Korea at the time this article was written. It hadn't yet been hit by famine.
Did you even read your article? What a pathetic attempt at trying to save face. |
What experts, other than yourself, are claiming that the North Korea military is "poorly maintained?"
Did you even look past the date to consider the many thousands of guns the North has? Even if just 1 in 10 were still around 20 years later (and I have no doubt that a much higher percentage are), it's a sizable threat.
Do you know anything about guns? Do you have any idea how long ammunition lasts? Do you have any understanding whatsoever of gun maintenance? Or are you just assuming that North Korea has let everything go to pot?
Per the article:
| Quote: |
| North Korea continues to rely on massive quantities of artillery systems to support ground operations. The North Korean Air Force's perceived vulnerability contributes to this reliance on field artillery as the major combat multiplier for combat operations. Consequently, Pyongyang has deployed about 8,400 artillery pieces and over 2,000 multiple rocket launchers. North Korea has at least 3,000 towed and 5,400 self-propelled guns and howitzers. In the l980s, North Korea produced a significant amount of self-propelled artillery by mating towed artillery tubes with chassis already in the inventory. North Korean ordnance factories produce a variety of self-propelled guns, howitzers, gun- howitzers (ranging from 122-mm to 152-mm), and the new KOKSAN gun first noted in a 1985 parade. North Korea also manufactures at least four models of multiple rocket launchers -- 107-mm, 122-mm, 140-mm, and 240-mm -- and mounts many of them on heavy trucks. |
What percentage of the above are you willing to go on-record as saying are non-operational? And what stats are you able to provide? Look at quotes like this:
| Quote: |
| Pyongyang is willing to invest the time and effort necessary to protect many weapon systems from air attack and artillery fire. |
So you are assuming that North Korea no longer protects weapons, therefor they are all falling apart?
Your blatherings are as stupid as the crap spewing from Lil'Kim's mouth. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| What experts, other than yourself, are claiming that the North Korea military is "poorly maintained?" |
Pretty much every military expert out there.
First article off of the google search. Plenty more out there.
http://www.iiss.org/publications/strategic-dossiers/north-korean-dossier/north-koreas-weapons-programmes-a-net-asses/the-conventional-military-balance-on-the-kore/
| Quote: |
Did you even look past the date to consider the many thousands of guns the North has? Even if just 1 in 10 were still around 20 years later (and I have no doubt that a much higher percentage are), it's a sizable threat.
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Not really in comparison to US/S. Korean military strength and technology.
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Do you know anything about guns? Do you have any idea how long ammunition lasts? Do you have any understanding whatsoever of gun maintenance? Or are you just assuming that North Korea has let everything go to pot?
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Artillery is different. The bombardment of Yeongpyeong and other incidents showed a 25% dud rate.
And its not just artillery, there are armored and motor vehicles as well. What about aircraft?
| Quote: |
| What percentage of the above are you willing to go on-record as saying are non-operational? And what stats are you able to provide? Look at quotes like this: |
Likely 20-40%. Perhaps more. Heck, during peacetime, even a well-funded military like the US has a percentage of its forces down for maintenance and repairs.
Furthermore the maskirovka used by the North Koreans strongly indicates their weakness and low maintenance. Ever notice how first-rate nations with the advantage don't do things like rig up dummy aircraft and parade around non-functioning fabrications in military parades in order to look strong and confuse people? Ever notice how the most powerful military in the world, the US, is rather open about what equipment it has and what technologies are being developed?
Dummy aircraft and mock-up missiles are a sign of weakness, not strength.
| Quote: |
So you are assuming that North Korea no longer protects weapons, therefor they are all falling apart?
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Explain to me how a nation that is starving, using 1950-60s Soviet equipment, with a microscopic economy is finding the money to maintain one of the largest militaries in the world to a level necessary to compete with the US and S. Korea. North Korean soldiers have to double as farmers. Yeah, I'm sure their military is in tip-top shape.
And again, your article is crap. It's from 1991. That's over 20 years ago. Just admit it.
Last edited by Steelrails on Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Not only do they have to double as farmers, they have to steal from local farmers in order to get chow. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| North Korean defectors are all razor thin. You may realize that before you meet any but it's still a big shock when you see them in person for the first time. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:00 am Post subject: |
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I think the South Koreans are starting to get alarmed about North Korea.
I was up near Insadong this evening wanting to buy some gold, which is something I do once every month or two. I saw a sweet 10 gram bar that I really wanted, but the lady said it was just a sample and wasn't for sale. I was disappointed, because it was the only one of those I have seen here. But there are dozens of similar shops along through there and I stopped into all of them, even some who had been game to wheel and deal with me in the past. But they gave the same response. No ingots or coins on display were for sale. Finally, I saw a store selling an ingot to a Korean, so I thought I had finally lucked up. But they wouldn't sell to me either.
These stores were foreigner-friendly in the past and some had even sold to me personally. The stores did want to sell jewelry (which I didn't want to buy), but wouldn't sell any gold ingots or gold coins at any price, except to Koreans. I think this is related in some way to the North Korea issue. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Then explain to me how North Korea continues to export weapons, and get caught doing so?
Steelrails, even the things you post back me up, and make you look more stupid. From your above link (please note the wording from your experts, which contradict your "expert" opinion) 
| Quote: |
Conclusion
The combination of North Korea�s long economic decline and enhanced US and South Korean military capabilities has diminshed the threat of a North Korean invasion of South Korea. Nonetheless, North Korea retains the ability to inflict heavy casualties and collateral damage, largely through the use of massed artillery. In effect, Pyongyang has more of a threat to devastate Seoul than to seize and hold it. |
I'll give you this fact, though... a document was leaked this week showing that the US knows North Korea does possess nuclear missile capability in some form. How much longer before it becomes enough of a worry that something has to be done about it?
Massive fail on your part, Steelrails. Massive fail. Laughable.
Here's a video for you. Perhaps they don't care about dying, and maybe just knowing they can kill a lot of us is enough:
http://situationroom.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/11/fmr-north-korea-spy-war-will-break-out/ |
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detonate
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Interesting, I would like to know if anyone else has had a similar experience.
| EZE wrote: |
I think the South Koreans are starting to get alarmed about North Korea.
I was up near Insadong this evening wanting to buy some gold, which is something I do once every month or two. I saw a sweet 10 gram bar that I really wanted, but the lady said it was just a sample and wasn't for sale. I was disappointed, because it was the only one of those I have seen here. But there are dozens of similar shops along through there and I stopped into all of them, even some who had been game to wheel and deal with me in the past. But they gave the same response. No ingots or coins on display were for sale. Finally, I saw a store selling an ingot to a Korean, so I thought I had finally lucked up. But they wouldn't sell to me either.
These stores were foreigner-friendly in the past and some had even sold to me personally. The stores did want to sell jewelry (which I didn't want to buy), but wouldn't sell any gold ingots or gold coins at any price, except to Koreans. I think this is related in some way to the North Korea issue. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Run for your lives Korea ESL teachers. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| How much longer before it becomes enough of a worry that something has to be done about it? |
Did anyone see the new op-ed in the New York Times entitled Bomb North Korea, Before It�s Too Late?
Excerpts:
| Quote: |
American intelligence agencies believe that North Korea is working to prepare even longer-range delivery systems to carry the nuclear warheads already in its arsenal.
The Korean crisis has now become a strategic threat to America�s core national interests. The best option is to destroy the North Korean missile on the ground before it is launched. The United States should use a precise airstrike to render the missile and its mobile launcher inoperable. |
| Quote: |
| A war on the Korean Peninsula is unlikely after an American strike, but it is not inconceivable. The North Koreans might continue to escalate, and Mr. Kim might feel obligated to start a war to save face. Under these unfortunate circumstances, the United States and its allies would still be better off fighting a war with North Korea today, when the conflict could still be confined largely to the Korean Peninsula. As North Korea�s actions over the last two months have shown, Mr. Kim�s government is willing to escalate its threats much more rapidly than his father�s regime did. An unending crisis would merely postpone war to a later date, when the damage caused by North Korea would be even greater. |
| Quote: |
| Destroying the North Korean missile before it is launched is the best of bad options on the Korean Peninsula. |
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