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Couchsurfer
Joined: 10 Apr 2013
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 Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Earthquakes, why are you committing threadromancy? |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Couchsurfer wrote: |
| Earthquakes, why are you committing threadromancy? |
threadromancy! I love it. I was going to ask the same thing.
But this thread is a good one and does not really go bad or stale. Plus it may teach some poor possible sucker to be careful. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: |
| Couchsurfer wrote: |
| Earthquakes, why are you committing threadromancy? |
threadromancy! I love it. I was going to ask the same thing.
But this thread is a good one and does not really go bad or stale. Plus it may teach some poor possible sucker to be careful. |
Any thread the Guru posted in is a good one. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2880244
What a ridiculous article.
"The brothels in Korea began to spread after the country first opened its port in 1876 through a diplomatic pact, causing ethnic quarters for Japanese migrants to sprout up in Busan, Wonsan and Incheon."
"The first red-light district was built in Busan in 1902 by the Japanese authority in Korea to prevent sexual transmitted diseases. One of the first brothels in the area was built on July 24, 1902 by a Japanese named Ueno Yasta."
I'm no expert in Korean history but I know there had to be a red light district in Korea somewhere before Japan arrived. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take any historical account that comes out of Korea seriously. This is a literate country, I don't understand how stuff like this can be published and generally accepted. |
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salutbonjour
Joined: 22 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2880244
What a ridiculous article.
"The brothels in Korea began to spread after the country first opened its port in 1876 through a diplomatic pact, causing ethnic quarters for Japanese migrants to sprout up in Busan, Wonsan and Incheon."
"The first red-light district was built in Busan in 1902 by the Japanese authority in Korea to prevent sexual transmitted diseases. One of the first brothels in the area was built on July 24, 1902 by a Japanese named Ueno Yasta."
I'm no expert in Korean history but I know there had to be a red light district in Korea somewhere before Japan arrived. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take any historical account that comes out of Korea seriously. This is a literate country, I don't understand how stuff like this can be published and generally accepted. |
A brothel is an organized business. Making the first brothel doesn't mean that you are the first to organize prostitution. It's possible that the Japanese were the first to organize something beyond 300 grams of rice for 30 minutes of clam. |
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Couchsurfer
Joined: 10 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Haha, good one.
No, I believe it. Koreans haven't invented jack in their history. They'd be walking around naked if someone else hadn't invented clothing.
| salutbonjour wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2880244
What a ridiculous article.
"The brothels in Korea began to spread after the country first opened its port in 1876 through a diplomatic pact, causing ethnic quarters for Japanese migrants to sprout up in Busan, Wonsan and Incheon."
"The first red-light district was built in Busan in 1902 by the Japanese authority in Korea to prevent sexual transmitted diseases. One of the first brothels in the area was built on July 24, 1902 by a Japanese named Ueno Yasta."
I'm no expert in Korean history but I know there had to be a red light district in Korea somewhere before Japan arrived. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take any historical account that comes out of Korea seriously. This is a literate country, I don't understand how stuff like this can be published and generally accepted. |
A brothel is an organized business. Making the first brothel doesn't mean that you are the first to organize prostitution. It's possible that the Japanese were the first to organize something beyond 300 grams of rice for 30 minutes of clam. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| You probably wont get it back. That kind of thing happens quite a lot in Korea for some reason. It happens to Koreans too. |
It happens a lot in the west too. Never loan more than 200 to 300 to a close friend. If you lose it, you're not out much. Unexpected events come up causing people to not be able to pay things back. Anything more than that, get some kind of collateral, something valuable that you can sell and with a witness and something signed. (Run on sentence, I know.) Short of my sister, my mother, or my grannie, anyone is most likely not getting a loan out of me or are paying me some type of collateral. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
| robot wrote: |
Losing money lent in Korea is an all-too-common story.
My mother-in-law, who is not particularly weathly, lent $100,000 to her very good friend to open a business. When it went under, the friend split town with her family, and hasn't been heard from since.
As if that wasn't bad enough, my mother-in-law made the same mistake again, this time lending $200,000 to another acquaintance. Same story: the business (a room salon, of all sketchy things) failed, and the friend ending up jumping to her death from the 20th floor of her apartment. That one has been particularly hard for my mother-in-law to get over...
So it could be worse, OP. Just let these stories be warnings to any others who might let their trusting nature -- or the attractiveness of a little interest on money lent -- get them into a similar dilemma. |
Yeah, I heard this kind of story more than a few times in Korea. From Korean adult students who had lent friends millions of won or their mother had lent a sister or brother in law or friend/acquaintance millions of won and they never repaid it.
The most shocking story I heard was from a foreigner who lived down in Jeollanam. I've heard from foreigners down there that in rough and traditionally poor towns like Mokpo, native teachers who have gotten close to Koreans, sometimes thru teaching a student and then meeting the family have been hit up for money.
In this foreign teacher's case they felt sorry for a student they taught at their school because the student was very bright and they came from a single parent family. They didn't know that at first - as the teacher said, if they'd known the student's mother was looking for money they would have made sure they didn't meet the family.
The mother kept pressing the kid to ask for financial help and sure enough, the foreign teacher ended up helping them move house twice w/fees and helped the kid to go to a hagwon. The teacher thought this was going to be a genuine friendship with Koreans, the Koreans kept ratcheting up the pressure for more financial help. The teacher got nothing out of this.
No contacts - a divorced woman in Mokpo from a low income family is not going to help a foreign teacher hear about work or life opportunities in Korea. No trips or similar things to give a foreign teacher the chance to see Korea with Koreans. The teacher didn't have a car, the mother of the student didn't have a car, and if there were family members who could have shown some hospitality to the teacher, they were never informed of it.
The worst thing tho for the teacher was when the kid finished school. They let the kid and mother know that they could not keep paying for a hagwon if they wanted more study for the kid and could not provide university fees. This was said politely. The teacher has not heard from that family at all. For 7 months now. Obviously they are not useful anymore. As the teacher said, what about just taking them out for dinner to say thank you for over 3 yrs of financial assistance? There wasn't even a card saying thank you for all you did.
Lesson of all this - if you are ever going to help Koreans financially, then make sure you get something out of it even if you don't expect them to pay you the money back. Low income Koreans from backgrounds of no social capital will suck up what they can, demand more and then cut you dead when you can't keep being drained.
I don't think that teacher deserved this treatment. They are an intelligent person but their mistake was in thinking that somehow those Koreans would show their appreciation for the financial help. If I'd lived down there I would have told them to cut these people before they asked for money the 2nd time. |
Why would you giver money and pay this? Was he getting something on the side? Hopefully, she was hot and fun, at least. Beware of pretty country girls from poor families. They've been bred to be sexy and pour on the charm, act vulnerable, get mad, and do whatever it takes to get what they want. Happens in other Asian countries too. Had some friends get trapped in bad marriages with crazy women due to this. |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Nope - and I believe him. He's a Christian and was involved in the local Korean church which his student went to. From what I heard from our friends down there, the kid is very bright, just unlucky to come from a low class, single parent background.
My mate saw a lot of the student with other students both at church and at school. The student's mother didn't go to church and as he says, that sucked cause he would have heard all about her circumstances if she had gone to church. He made a big mistake - thought that he would just contribute and it turned into this black hole because as an active church member and organiser he was made to feel that it was part of his church activity.
He only meant to help out with the hagwon but then it became pleas for more subjects because the mother couldn't afford to give that advantage to her kid, then it became deposits for apartments because in keeping with the mother's circumstances, she and her kids including the student were living in a crowded apartment with some relatives who resented them being there, etc.
Poor bloke thought he would help out financially in one area and then found himself pressured to do more. He's a smart bloke but too serious about Christianity and too generous. He always thought that someday something nice would happen to him, like an invitation to go somewhere or a once off dinner, and being invited to be part of a Korean family. He was never invited for Seollal or Chuseok and that hurt him. But I think being bled almost dry has changed him. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| salutbonjour wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2880244
What a ridiculous article.
"The brothels in Korea began to spread after the country first opened its port in 1876 through a diplomatic pact, causing ethnic quarters for Japanese migrants to sprout up in Busan, Wonsan and Incheon."
"The first red-light district was built in Busan in 1902 by the Japanese authority in Korea to prevent sexual transmitted diseases. One of the first brothels in the area was built on July 24, 1902 by a Japanese named Ueno Yasta."
I'm no expert in Korean history but I know there had to be a red light district in Korea somewhere before Japan arrived. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take any historical account that comes out of Korea seriously. This is a literate country, I don't understand how stuff like this can be published and generally accepted. |
A brothel is an organized business. Making the first brothel doesn't mean that you are the first to organize prostitution. It's possible that the Japanese were the first to organize something beyond 300 grams of rice for 30 minutes of clam. |
A lot of things are possible but that is highly unlikely. I'm not well versed on the topic of what constitutes a brothel but here is a link
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/brothel?s=t
Pretty simple definition. I'm not giving the author a pass on this one, that's a pathetic article. Maybe the Japanese introduced the Japanese business model so in that sense it was more organized or something, but that doesn't mean there wasn't another Korean model that already existed before it.
The author also says the first red light district in Korea was built in Busan in 1902, what? 1902? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. What exactly constitutes a red light district? I'm willing to bet there were a couple of houses out there somewhere in the country before 1902.
It's not that the author is trying to hide the fact that prositution existed. It's that the author is blaming another nationality and creating a pitiful lie that is so obviously false it's an insult to any reader's intelligence. At least make the lie somewhat believable.
Anyway if you can show me I'm wrong I'm all ears. Funny thing is I can't tell if you are blaming the Japanese or just giving them a compliment. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe they are right about Japan.
According to that dutch Hammel guy, all Koreans wanted to do was drink, smoke, have sex, and be left alone. Maybe prostitution wasn't here because the women were just forced, like slaves/property, to do it. I bet they weren't even forced-- probably just culturally expected, therefore a normal part of everyday life. The idea of paying for something the men could just get any time they wanted was probably completely foreign to them. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| earthquakez wrote: |
| robot wrote: |
Losing money lent in Korea is an all-too-common story.
My mother-in-law, who is not particularly weathly, lent $100,000 to her very good friend to open a business. When it went under, the friend split town with her family, and hasn't been heard from since.
As if that wasn't bad enough, my mother-in-law made the same mistake again, this time lending $200,000 to another acquaintance. Same story: the business (a room salon, of all sketchy things) failed, and the friend ending up jumping to her death from the 20th floor of her apartment. That one has been particularly hard for my mother-in-law to get over...
So it could be worse, OP. Just let these stories be warnings to any others who might let their trusting nature -- or the attractiveness of a little interest on money lent -- get them into a similar dilemma. |
Yeah, I heard this kind of story more than a few times in Korea. From Korean adult students who had lent friends millions of won or their mother had lent a sister or brother in law or friend/acquaintance millions of won and they never repaid it.
The most shocking story I heard was from a foreigner who lived down in Jeollanam. I've heard from foreigners down there that in rough and traditionally poor towns like Mokpo, native teachers who have gotten close to Koreans, sometimes thru teaching a student and then meeting the family have been hit up for money.
In this foreign teacher's case they felt sorry for a student they taught at their school because the student was very bright and they came from a single parent family. They didn't know that at first - as the teacher said, if they'd known the student's mother was looking for money they would have made sure they didn't meet the family.
The mother kept pressing the kid to ask for financial help and sure enough, the foreign teacher ended up helping them move house twice w/fees and helped the kid to go to a hagwon. The teacher thought this was going to be a genuine friendship with Koreans, the Koreans kept ratcheting up the pressure for more financial help. The teacher got nothing out of this.
No contacts - a divorced woman in Mokpo from a low income family is not going to help a foreign teacher hear about work or life opportunities in Korea. No trips or similar things to give a foreign teacher the chance to see Korea with Koreans. The teacher didn't have a car, the mother of the student didn't have a car, and if there were family members who could have shown some hospitality to the teacher, they were never informed of it.
The worst thing tho for the teacher was when the kid finished school. They let the kid and mother know that they could not keep paying for a hagwon if they wanted more study for the kid and could not provide university fees. This was said politely. The teacher has not heard from that family at all. For 7 months now. Obviously they are not useful anymore. As the teacher said, what about just taking them out for dinner to say thank you for over 3 yrs of financial assistance? There wasn't even a card saying thank you for all you did.
Lesson of all this - if you are ever going to help Koreans financially, then make sure you get something out of it even if you don't expect them to pay you the money back. Low income Koreans from backgrounds of no social capital will suck up what they can, demand more and then cut you dead when you can't keep being drained.
I don't think that teacher deserved this treatment. They are an intelligent person but their mistake was in thinking that somehow those Koreans would show their appreciation for the financial help. If I'd lived down there I would have told them to cut these people before they asked for money the 2nd time. |
Why would you giver money and pay this? Was he getting something on the side? Hopefully, she was hot and fun, at least. Beware of pretty country girls from poor families. They've been bred to be sexy and pour on the charm, act vulnerable, get mad, and do whatever it takes to get what they want. Happens in other Asian countries too. Had some friends get trapped in bad marriages with crazy women due to this. |
...and I can tell you from being here for a while that being Christian here doesn't always mean good character and that you won't get betrayed. Keep your instincts sharp and if you smell a trap, get out of dodge. |
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salutbonjour
Joined: 22 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| salutbonjour wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2880244
What a ridiculous article.
"The brothels in Korea began to spread after the country first opened its port in 1876 through a diplomatic pact, causing ethnic quarters for Japanese migrants to sprout up in Busan, Wonsan and Incheon."
"The first red-light district was built in Busan in 1902 by the Japanese authority in Korea to prevent sexual transmitted diseases. One of the first brothels in the area was built on July 24, 1902 by a Japanese named Ueno Yasta."
I'm no expert in Korean history but I know there had to be a red light district in Korea somewhere before Japan arrived. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take any historical account that comes out of Korea seriously. This is a literate country, I don't understand how stuff like this can be published and generally accepted. |
A brothel is an organized business. Making the first brothel doesn't mean that you are the first to organize prostitution. It's possible that the Japanese were the first to organize something beyond 300 grams of rice for 30 minutes of clam. |
A lot of things are possible but that is highly unlikely. I'm not well versed on the topic of what constitutes a brothel but here is a link
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/brothel?s=t |
And your argument is that sex might have been sold in a house?
My argument is that the Japanese might have been the first to organize a business where prostitutes are employees providing a service instead of direct prostitution whether done within or outside of one's abode. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| salutbonjour wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| salutbonjour wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2880244
What a ridiculous article.
"The brothels in Korea began to spread after the country first opened its port in 1876 through a diplomatic pact, causing ethnic quarters for Japanese migrants to sprout up in Busan, Wonsan and Incheon."
"The first red-light district was built in Busan in 1902 by the Japanese authority in Korea to prevent sexual transmitted diseases. One of the first brothels in the area was built on July 24, 1902 by a Japanese named Ueno Yasta."
I'm no expert in Korean history but I know there had to be a red light district in Korea somewhere before Japan arrived. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take any historical account that comes out of Korea seriously. This is a literate country, I don't understand how stuff like this can be published and generally accepted. |
A brothel is an organized business. Making the first brothel doesn't mean that you are the first to organize prostitution. It's possible that the Japanese were the first to organize something beyond 300 grams of rice for 30 minutes of clam. |
A lot of things are possible but that is highly unlikely. I'm not well versed on the topic of what constitutes a brothel but here is a link
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/brothel?s=t |
And your argument is that sex might have been sold in a house?
My argument is that the Japanese might have been the first to organize a business where prostitutes are employees providing a service instead of direct prostitution whether done within or outside of one's abode. |
No I actually think that there were brothels in Korea before Japanese arrived. Like I said in the full post maybe the Japanese just introduced their model. What is your definition of a brothel or red light district anyway? I think this comes down to whether or not you agree with the author. I disagree with the author and I think the book makes some ridiculous claims, but if you are creating another case and arguing that the Japanese brought more organization or official status to prostitution then I still disagree, but I think you have a valid argument and if you can provide some proof then I will buy it. The whole article written by the author just sounds like a face saving/blame the Japanese document.
I would also like to note that we are talking about black market activity here, and if it wasn't black market then the stigma would often lead to women being secretive about their line of work in official documents. The Japanese introduced health clinics to treat the prostitutes which might have led to more accurate records being kept of their numbers and locations. Prior to the arrival of the Japanese the practice may have just been kept in the dark which would have lead to the numbers being much smaller on official accounts. I have noticed most negative stories about Korea come from foreign studies or accounts of foreigners visiting. I rarely see them coming from a native Korean unless of course the intended audience of this account is only going to be fellow Koreans.
My reasoning is just the way organized Prostitution is just so widespread here. I don't see how it could have become so engrained in the culture if it was introduced as late as the 1900's. I am admittedly not well read on the subject. My experience tells me Korean values are pretty hard to shake from the local population.
Anyway, if you have some more substantial records or something I will look at them. |
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