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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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 Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| Moral of the story: Don't go out drinking with Korean dudes. I stopped doing it and I'm better off for it. |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:08 am Post subject: Re: Trouble with co-worker (I am not certain where to post) |
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| billyh wrote: |
Ok, so the other night I went out drinking with a supervisor of mine. This is the order of events which entailed:
Supervisor and I went to dinner, we drank a little bit and ate. It got late, around midnight, but he wanted to continue to �party.� He asked if I wanted to go to a bar near my apartment, which I thought was fine and maybe he was making it convenient for me. Went to a bar near my apartment. At this bar, said supervisor asked me if he could stay at my apartment which I reluctantly said would be fine. After being at the bar for about a little over an hour, the bar owner approached me saying he thinks that it�s time that supervisor went home. I believe he was being confrontational toward the bar owner and other employees. Upon reaching my apartment, supervisor takes off his clothing until he is in his underwear. I inform him that I am going to go downstairs and sleep in my girlfriend�s (she is on vacation) apartment. This angers supervisor significantly. He begins to use profanity. He flips over a chair of mine in anger. He is spitting on the floor around my apartment. He also proceeds to punch my refrigerator, leaving a dent in the freezer door. He continues to use profanity in Korean and English, to which I decide to leave him.
The next morning I go to my apartment at about 11:30 am to see if he has left. He is sleeping in my bed with all of his clothing now scattered around the room. There is also a blanket, which was a gift from the school, covered in vomit on the floor. I leave him to go to work, which he catches up to me as I am catching the bus. He apologizes, asking me if he �turned into a monster last night?� I try to ignore him, but tell him everything is fine because I don�t want to be bothered.
Upon coming home after work I inspected my apartment. There is a vomit stain on my bed sheets. He has made a mess out of my recycling. The room smells very badly of alcohol and I see that a bottle of alcohol that I keep on my desk has been moved to the kitchen, with significantly less liquid in it. I cannot find the vomit covered blanket, until I look out the window and see it has been thrown out of the apartment, and then landed on an awning outside of the building. In the bathroom I see that my toothbrush has also been moved, leading me to believe that he helped himself to use that.
Am I overreacting? I feel taken advantage of and frankly, I feel uncomfortable continuing to have to maintain a close working relationship with this guy. I don't want to bring this up too far into the future. I plan on speaking to my director about this, but I don't want to end up shooting myself in the foot. Can anyone shed any light/supply any sort of advice on this? |
Look, from what you've written you were placed in a very awkward position by your supervisor. Don't get distracted by all the people talking about gay this, gay that and how homophobic it is not to like the way Korean blokes are touchy feeling and just about flirt with other men.
My best Korean friend is a gay man, I'm a straight man, and he never assumed when we were becoming friends that he could crash at my place as he didn't know me very well. I knew he was gay and unlike some of the men in Korea, gay or straight, he is a good bloke who understands how to be well mannered and considerate. Irrespective of anything to do with sex, he didn't invite himself to my place when I didn't know him very well.
It's about consideration of others, this issue. It's about power dynamics, this issue. The Korean man in question was not your co-worker, he was your supervisor. Koreans are preoccupied with hierarchy so the fact he wanted to spend the night at your apartment was the usual selfishness of those in authority in Korea.
He should not have done that. He might even have done that if he wasn't drunk, just curious about the foreigner and overly familiar. One thing you'll learn in Korea is how overly familiar Koreans can be. At my first public school I wasn't allowed to refer to any Korean teacher by their first name, even their first name in English, even to other teachers, but they sure as hell kept referring to me by my first name without consulting me whether I'd like something less familiar.
They also encouraged the kids to call me by my first name and never 'teacher' - again they simply did not think it was of any importance to ask me how I felt about it. I was an experienced teacher and experienced in other work when I went to Korea. Koreans also asked overly familiar questions about my life including questions that most cultures find rude when they are not addressed to a personal friend of some time.
Koreans also have little concept of privacy as we know it and can be boorish and intrusive when they really know little about us and do not show any particular liking for us. You should have called a taxi for your supervisor and made your excuses to leave but it's not your fault. It's his.
However, you made a mistake being so hard on him re the mess he made. In East Asian drinking culture, people are expected to cut loose and their mistakes are forgotten the next day. The fact he offered you a kind of apology should have been enough for you.
But this bloke showed a typical Korean disdain for the opinions and feelings of those Koreans believe are below them in status. Don't get it twisted by listening to apologists here - the foreigner is always lower in status in Korea regardless. |
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Look, from what you've written you were placed in a very awkward position by your supervisor. Don't get distracted by all the people talking about gay this, gay that and how homophobic it is not to like the way Korean blokes are touchy feeling and just about flirt with other men.
My best Korean friend is a gay man, I'm a straight man, and he never assumed when we were becoming friends that he could crash at my place as he didn't know me very well. I knew he was gay and unlike some of the men in Korea, gay or straight, he is a good bloke who understands how to be well mannered and considerate. Irrespective of anything to do with sex, he didn't invite himself to my place when I didn't know him very well.
It's about consideration of others, this issue. It's about power dynamics, this issue. The Korean man in question was not your co-worker, he was your supervisor. Koreans are preoccupied with hierarchy so the fact he wanted to spend the night at your apartment was the usual selfishness of those in authority in Korea.
He should not have done that. He might even have done that if he wasn't drunk, just curious about the foreigner and overly familiar. One thing you'll learn in Korea is how overly familiar Koreans can be. At my first public school I wasn't allowed to refer to any Korean teacher by their first name, even their first name in English, even to other teachers, but they sure as hell kept referring to me by my first name without consulting me whether I'd like something less familiar.
They also encouraged the kids to call me by my first name and never 'teacher' - again they simply did not think it was of any importance to ask me how I felt about it. I was an experienced teacher and experienced in other work when I went to Korea. Koreans also asked overly familiar questions about my life including questions that most cultures find rude when they are not addressed to a personal friend of some time.
Koreans also have little concept of privacy as we know it and can be boorish and intrusive when they really know little about us and do not show any particular liking for us. You should have called a taxi for your supervisor and made your excuses to leave but it's not your fault. It's his.
However, you made a mistake being so hard on him re the mess he made. In East Asian drinking culture, people are expected to cut loose and their mistakes are forgotten the next day. The fact he offered you a kind of apology should have been enough for you.
But this bloke showed a typical Korean disdain for the opinions and feelings of those Koreans believe are below them in status. Don't get it twisted by listening to apologists here - the foreigner is always lower in status in Korea regardless. |
Too simple..... (Is your name Simon?)  |
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JulieAnne81
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| smiley_gurl wrote: |
| Malislamusrex wrote: |
| The guy dented your fridge and made a mess of your place and you got him fired. In a few weeks you are going to think it was excessive. |
^Agreed.
Also, like someone else said above: 'forgive and be forgiven.' What the supervisor did wasn't normal and you had a right to be pissed. However, have you ever been so drunk that you've puked somewhere, or on someone? Maybe you haven't. Have you ever gotten so emotional that you did something that you later regretted? Maybe you haven't. Have you ever worked at a sh!tty job dealing with jerks that you hated but still continued to work there because you needed the money? Maybe you haven't. What he did was wrong but to the OP, did you at any time feel like you were going to be harmed by him and his near-violence? Would a sincere apology, a new blanket, a new bottle of alcohol, and personally cleaning up his mess have made up for his actions?
South Korea has the highest suicide rate in the OECD- about 37 people kill themself a day. Think about it like this: if tmrw you found out that he killed himself because the subsequent backlash from what he did, would you feel vindicated? |
Vindicated? Good grief. I hope not. But I sure as hell hope he wouldn't feel responsible either.
The OP had every right to be pissed, and in my opinion, he had every right to mention it to somebody else at work. As far as the supervisor getting fired, the OP already said he was told there'd been other problems with the guy in the past, and that this was the 'last straw'.
Also, to Malislamusrex, I'm guessing you've never gotten someone fired before (or played a part in the process), particularly a person you really didn't like and/or who acted like a complete idiot. I did once, and it felt great. I still smile when I think about it because the jackass had it coming. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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I forgot all about this thread.
So what's the news? Dude got fired and then what? Tattletale is "golden boy" now? I feel like the drama will continue...give us more... |
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markness
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Dude got fired because someone was a narc. |
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JulieAnne81
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I stumbled upon this rather late, as I don't visit Dave's often.
My guess is, guy got fired and life went on as normal; perhaps it's even better now that he's gone. I could be wrong of course...
But 'tattletale'? Seriously? Just hearing that makes me think I'm back in elementary school. OP had a problem with a co-worker. OP discussed with other people at work (another supervisor); not unheard of and certainly shouldn't be frowned upon, regardless of your thoughts on what's 'etiquette' after a night of drinking here, or anywhere, for that matter. According to OP, guy had been a problem in the past, and now he's gone. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Trouble with co-worker (I am not certain where to post) |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
At my first public school I wasn't allowed to refer to any Korean teacher by their first name, even their first name in English, even to other teachers, but they sure as hell kept referring to me by my first name without consulting me whether I'd like something less familiar.
They also encouraged the kids to call me by my first name and never 'teacher' - again they simply did not think it was of any importance to ask me how I felt about it.
Don't get it twisted by listening to apologists here - the foreigner is always lower in status in Korea regardless. |
(just addressing a few points here)
As regards the first one "not allowed"? Seriously? The first time it happened I would politely explain that I would appreciate being referred to by [insert desired title here]
Thereafter should it continue I would have simply informed the person or persons doing the non-allowing that as long as they are going to call me by my first name I am going to address them by theirs. Case closed. Not open for discussion.
Again in the second one...instantly correct their behavior.
"No my name is not [first name]. My name is Mr. earthquakez". The first time it happens have a talk with the offending teacher after class and explain it clearly. End the conversation with a smile and the comment "I really hope it doesn't happen again...I don't like correcting fellow teachers in front of the class."
As regards your third point...well I was in your shoes as regards the first two and I simply took the above steps to have them fixed. In both cases I received an apology and the offending behavior was eradicated.
So yes you can effect change. One thing is for sure. If one does not even try and merely says something like "Well foreigners are lower in status so nothing will happen" then nothing will change.
Besides which it would seem that the OP's story contradicts your "foreigners are lower in status" claim. It was the Korean supervisor who got fired and not the foreigner OP. |
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