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javis
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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 Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| That's not a proper handshake for the occasion by American standards either. That said, he's an awkward computer nerd who became wealthy through his own brilliance and ingenuity. He shouldn't be held to the same standards of protocol as Korean heads of business who grew up as over-cultured princelings. |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: South Koreans Debate Bill Gates "Rude" Handsha |
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| Julius wrote: |
I totally agree.
When you greet a foreign head of state, you are in fact greeting a whole country.
It requires a much smarter approach.
Bill Gates is not even looking her in the eye, he's shaking her hand while looking round the room at other people.
It comes across as American Arrogance. |
Well Gates isn't a world leader. He's not representing anyone except himself. If Koreans, or anyone else, choose to be offended by this it is their neurosis. Not his lack of manners.
He's choosing to greet "the whole country" in a casual friendly way. I'd prefer that to the awkward, wooden, faux polite schtick we usually see. There's nothing more cringe worthy than posed, fake looking meetings/photo ops, which Koreans are the Kings of.
Ever walked past the front window of those family photo studios and seen the creepy, oh so natural family photos? The father's loving hand clasped on his son's shoulder. The Mother leaning forward at a strange angle with a weird smile. Such good manners. So polite. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| He shouldn't be held to the same standards of protocol as Korean heads of business who grew up as over-cultured princelings. |
To be fair, a good number of Korean heads of business grew up in utterly crappy conditions.
Back home my Korean boss was a guy who grew up with no electricity and kicking a sheep stomach for a soccer ball and went on to become a Korean bank president before semi-retiring to America.
As I've said, when greeting a head of state, you behave in a proper respectful manner. If you were president you wouldn't like some Korean guy to stroll up to you and give you a limp handshake while not looking you in the eye.
Dude, reverse the situations and have Dr. Ahn greet the Queen of England this way and people would be screaming bloody murder and "Typical Korean Bad Manners".
And of course, Bill Gates being an uber-nerd mitigates the whole thing because that is what uber-nerds do. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| He shouldn't be held to the same standards of protocol as Korean heads of business who grew up as over-cultured princelings. |
To be fair, a good number of Korean heads of business grew up in utterly crappy conditions.
Back home my Korean boss was a guy who grew up with no electricity and kicking a sheep stomach for a soccer ball and went on to become a Korean bank president before semi-retiring to America.
As I've said, when greeting a head of state, you behave in a proper respectful manner. If you were president you wouldn't like some Korean guy to stroll up to you and give you a limp handshake while not looking you in the eye.
Dude, reverse the situations and have Dr. Ahn greet the Queen of England this way and people would be screaming bloody murder and "Typical Korean Bad Manners".
And of course, Bill Gates being an uber-nerd mitigates the whole thing because that is what uber-nerds do. |
I could see the reverse being forgiven with someone like Jackie Chan. People that have created enough of a unique persona in the mind of the public over time tend to be forgiven for slights that would stick to others. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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As I've said, when greeting a head of state, you behave in a proper respectful manner. If you were president you wouldn't like some Korean guy to stroll up to you and give you a limp handshake while not looking you in the eye.
Dude, reverse the situations and have Dr. Ahn greet the Queen of England this way and people would be screaming bloody murder and "Typical Korean Bad Manners". |
I don't think that's an apt comparison. The Korean president isn't the same as the Queen.
Also, who is Dr Ahn?
Anyway, I honestly don't think anyone would care if a Korean shook the Queens hand in a way perceived as rude. In the UK the majority of people don't know where Korea is. Honestly, Korea is such a minor player in their lives they wouldn't care. I'm only now hearing about Obama giving the Queen an ipod and a hug now. Only monarchy idolizing halfwits would care.
I get the feeling it's the same in Korea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJNcnDLWNis |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| drydell wrote: |
| Haha - maybe it was intentional after all -maybe it was a " 'So you're the new leader of the country that has illegal copies of my operating system and software in every school, office and business in the country.... It's a bit like you've all been giving me a big ol' collective FU for the last 15 years.. I'd say you owe me .. Rather a lot - hmmm?' |
Is this true? If so, I hope he brought it up in his converations with Park. However, I can imagine her defence: "Please understand our situation." |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
| I don't think that's an apt comparison. The Korean president isn't the same as the Queen. |
Actually they are. Both are heads of their respective states. So no |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually they are. Both are heads of their respective states. So no |
I see your point but one is an officially elected official with a limited amount of time in power, the other achieved her position through birthright.
Totally different. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| drydell wrote: |
| Haha - maybe it was intentional after all -maybe it was a " 'So you're the new leader of the country that has illegal copies of my operating system and software in every school, office and business in the country.... It's a bit like you've all been giving me a big ol' collective FU for the last 15 years.. I'd say you owe me .. Rather a lot - hmmm?' |
Is this true? If so, I hope he brought it up in his converations with Park. However, I can imagine her defence: "Please understand our situation." |
Several programs like Windows and Word used in the military were illegal copies. Kind of ironic. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| drydell wrote: |
| Haha - maybe it was intentional after all -maybe it was a " 'So you're the new leader of the country that has illegal copies of my operating system and software in every school, office and business in the country.... It's a bit like you've all been giving me a big ol' collective FU for the last 15 years.. I'd say you owe me .. Rather a lot - hmmm?' |
Is this true? If so, I hope he brought it up in his converations with Park. However, I can imagine her defence: "Please understand our situation." |
Several programs like Windows and Word used in the military were illegal copies. Kind of ironic. |
There was a crackdown a while back and it was reported that office workers were throwing their computers out the windows to avoid getting caught once the inspectors showed up. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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If they're really that upset about it, they can donate all their PCs and windows laptops to some undeveloped nation and replace them with Apple products.
Win-win(dows)!
Pretty petty thing to be worried about when your neighbor to the north is threatening you with nukes.
Next time, go for the fist bump, Bill. I bet that's how Dennis Rodman greeted Kim Jong-un. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Actually they are. Both are heads of their respective states. So no |
I see your point but one is an officially elected official with a limited amount of time in power, the other achieved her position through birthright.
Totally different. |
Totally different in how they became head of state. But both are heads of state. The Korean president, or any Korean citizen, is not expected to bow to the Queen of England. Only subjects of the Queen are supposed, which unfortunately includes Canadians.
The queen is lucky that the citizens of her nation didn't decide to wipe-out her ancestors about 100/200 years ago, when most of the world were literally chopping their non-elected head of state heads off. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:15 am Post subject: |
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By Odins bowel.. Only a bunch of severely anal retentive people would give a crap about Gate's handshake. Sounds like jealousy. I mean , sorry even mentioning something like this sounds mentally ill. It was a handshake. thats all. This lowers my opinion of the South Korean president. Of course there is no way to lower my opinion of the South Korean press. That bottomed out years ago.
No one and I mean no one cares enough about South Korea to learn it's "customs" customs that were borrowed from the West by the way. A custom that started in the middle of the 20th century by the way. |
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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| I'm getting a kick out of all this for some reason. This and the thread about winking and what a huge impact that has on the world. Amazing stuff. Insanity is not really funny of course, it is not something to laugh about, but these "issues" are in a league of their own. Some guy winked at me, some guy didn't shake hands properly, someone spit on the road, somebody farted. Well, those last 2 are OK as long as local people do them. Good grief. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Well as an experiment I told my woman "Bill shook the president's hand with his other hand in his pocket". Her immediate reaction was "WTF??". And she's not insane.
I think it just strikes Koreans as common sense that you would never do such a thing. Especially not a high level executive. Probably they assume because their executives get training and education abroad, that Americans must too, and that because these manners are common sense to Koreans, they must be common sense to Americans too.
Then on the American side you have people assuming it's just common sense to understand Bill is a nerd and didn't mean anything by it, and common sense to know he is an individual and that's just his personal style, and assuming these American ways of thinking are common sense and must be common sense to Koreans too.
Basically most people aren't smart should be confined to the boundaries of their own country. Especially Americans and Koreans who are actually very much alike in their inability to understand anything outside their little world. |
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