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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:54 am Post subject: |
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T-J wrote: |
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Uptil now Korea has gotten away with their racism by ensuring that foreigners gain no foothold in this country.
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How do you explain the F-2 points visa?
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Its just for show. They know they have to be seen to be doing something, because of all these treaties and guidelines they sign up to at OECD meetings and summits. But their hearts not in it.
In practise they make it absurdly difficult to gain residency. Do they really think exams on complicated obsolete honorific verb forms (that most koreans do not even know) is a reasonable test for outsiders?
Like many of their laws. Koreans are experts at presenting a certain image to the world while hiding the reality. At times its almost like a national conspiracy. Sounds ridiculous to someone who has never lived in Korea. The DPRk takes it to extremes, they've built entire towns as a fake facade to the world.
Given the terminal decline in population growth here, ultimately they will have to let in boatloads of practically anyone just to make up the numbers. But they're staving off that moment for as long as humanly possible.
PatrickBusan wrote: |
He can't explain it, nor the old F2, the F5 or the F6 |
Do you have citizenship on any of those visas? Do have all the rights of Koreans welcomed into Canada? What happens to your visa if you and your korean wife divorce?
Do all those taxes you pay give you even an ounce of proper legal protection and fair treatment by the korean police and legal system? |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:12 am Post subject: |
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newb wrote: |
NohopeSeriously wrote: |
I think NETs in general forget that South Korea is one of the most militarized places in the world.  |
Actually, Korea is a police state. |
Touche. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Julius wrote: |
T-J wrote: |
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Uptil now Korea has gotten away with their racism by ensuring that foreigners gain no foothold in this country.
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How do you explain the F-2 points visa?
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Its just for show. They know they have to be seen to be doing something, because of all these treaties and guidelines they sign up to at OECD meetings and summits. But their hearts not in it.
In practise they make it absurdly difficult to gain residency. Do they really think exams on complicated obsolete honorific verb forms (that most koreans do not even know) is a reasonable test for outsiders?
Like many of their laws. Koreans are experts at presenting a certain image to the world while hiding the reality. At times its almost like a national conspiracy. Sounds ridiculous to someone who has never lived in Korea. The DPRk takes it to extremes, they've built entire towns as a fake facade to the world.
Given the terminal decline in population growth here, ultimately they will have to let in boatloads of practically anyone just to make up the numbers. But they're staving off that moment for as long as humanly possible.
PatrickBusan wrote: |
He can't explain it, nor the old F2, the F5 or the F6 |
Do you have citizenship on any of those visas? Do have all the rights of Koreans welcomed into Canada? What happens to your visa if you and your korean wife divorce?
Do all those taxes you pay give you even an ounce of proper legal protection and fair treatment by the korean police and legal system? |
You have permanent residency on some of those visas.
Citizenship is another issue and in that regard, Korea is hardly alone in making it hard for someone to become a citizen.
If you divorce your Korean spouse on some of the residency visas...what happens to you is NOTHING.
As for the Koreans welcomed into Canada...what visa status are you refering too. If you want comparables, talk in comparables. |
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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Crimes and perceived insults coming from foreigners seem to get a lot of notice in that homogenous nation. I bet they sell better than boring old local actions. Guess it plays into people's fears. Maybe those fears used to serve a purpose. Now they just seem silly. But we are human, not very rational. There's still a great amount of "us and them" thinking. It's a frightening and fearful way of thinking. It's poison, but it helps sell stories too.
Last edited by joelove on Wed May 01, 2013 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:46 am Post subject: |
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big_fella1 wrote: |
Steelrails wrote: |
I see a potential flaw in your discrimination claim. Can you see it?
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Yes I thought about the potential flaw in my logic, but then I recalled my wife once went to the gu office to have her fingerprints and photo taken at 19, she didn't have to travel to some office in the middle of nowhere and she didn't have to go again. The Korean government has my photo and fingerprints already, I'm not going to waste my time getting them done again because of their ability to store or match records. |
Yes, in America when I wanted certain government services I had to travel to major cities and there wasn't one in my suburbia. Other times I had to go to some strange location.
As for repeat fingerprints, yes you are not a citizen. It's not about race, it's about citizenship.
Anyways, your discrimination claim is a fail because as you said, Koreans get treated the same as you. And just the same for Koreans, those that are living in some podunk town have to travel to a certain office. And as for repeat examinations- they are citizens. You are not.
Last edited by Steelrails on Wed May 01, 2013 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:27 am Post subject: |
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joelove wrote: |
Crimes and perceived insults coming from foreigners seem to get a lot of notice in that homogenous nation. I bet they sell better than boring old local actions. Guess it plays into people's fears. Maybe those fears used to serve a purpose. Now they just seem silly. But we are human, not very rational. There's still a great amount of "us and them" thinking. It's a frightening and fearful way of thinking. It's poison, but it helps sell stories too. |
True.
However, if a person spends any time watching Korean shows, they will see how many of them focus on Korean criminals, fraud artists and the like and how far the reporters go to expose such people. |
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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joelove wrote: |
Crimes and perceived insults coming from foreigners seem to get a lot of notice in that homogenous nation. I bet they sell better than boring old local actions. Guess it plays into people's fears. Maybe those fears used to serve a purpose. Now they just seem silly. But we are human, not very rational. There's still a great amount of "us and them" thinking. It's a frightening and fearful way of thinking. It's poison, but it helps sell stories too. |
Just looking for a way to inject this into a conversation today, lol. This seems to fit well as for most recent discussions.
The commercial
Mountain Dew Under Fire for 'Most Racist Commercial in History'
You guys would have a field day if this happened in Korea, which is SUCH a racist country. /sarcasm off
EDIT: The commercial disappeared from that website. I found a link on Youtube so edited it. Pepsico is trying to cover this up as fast as it possibly can.
Last edited by War Eagle on Wed May 01, 2013 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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War Eagle wrote: |
joelove wrote: |
Crimes and perceived insults coming from foreigners seem to get a lot of notice in that homogenous nation. I bet they sell better than boring old local actions. Guess it plays into people's fears. Maybe those fears used to serve a purpose. Now they just seem silly. But we are human, not very rational. There's still a great amount of "us and them" thinking. It's a frightening and fearful way of thinking. It's poison, but it helps sell stories too. |
Just looking for a way to inject this into a conversation today, lol. This seems to fit well as for most recent discussions.
The commercial
Mountain Dew Under Fire for 'Most Racist Commercial in History'
You guys would have a field day if this happened in Korea, which is SUCH a racist country. /sarcasm off |
That commercial is seriously messed up. I'd boycott Pepsi over this but I don't drink it anyway.
Korea has improved a lot in the last 25 years and give Lee Myung-bak his dues, he promised in a speech to the Indian Chamber of Commerce in Delhi before his election to make the visa system in Korea easier and he did. Is it easy enough for a country with a declining population probably not, but at least they've started now. Japan has huge problems as their population is already declining and China's one child policy has seriously screwed its demographics.
The bulk of Korea's population growth will come from India and South-East Asia, countries that have significantly more younger people than the elderly.
That's why I as a fat white westerner must complain, because I know that my treatment in Korea is privileged compared to South-East Asian migrants and even most Koreans. I have to add value somewhere and if I can help my wife and daughters country become more foreigner friendly through my privileged postion then I will do that.
I am pretty disgusted with the apologists, but some people have said things about Korea here I don't agree with either.
Can I suggest to all apologists for your own mental health, you don't come onto Daves. It's a place to vent, you have the happy life you've developed in Korea, so why the hell do you come here? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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newb wrote: |
[q
I agree, except that those superstition or urban legends were believed hundreds years ago. But believing in "fan death" in highly connected modern world is just ignorant. Thus, I was saying justice won't be served in an ignorant culture that believes in "fan death." |
Superstition runs rampart in most cultures
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/10/25/poll-one-third-americans-believe-in-ghosts-ufos/
Here's one for the U.K
http://www.richardwiseman.com/research/superstition.html
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1: Touching wood � 86%
2: Crossing fingers � 64%
3: Walking under a ladder � 49%
4: Breaking a mirror � 34%
5: Worried about the number 13 � 25%
6: Carrying a lucky charm � 24%
These are surprisingly high figures, and indicate that superstition is alive and well in modern day Britain. Indeed, amazingly, 86% of Brits said that they carried out at least one of these superstitious behaviours. Even scientists are not immune from superstition - for example, 15% of people with a science background said that they feared the number 13. |
As for "fan death" itself.
http://yanswersblog.com/index.php/archives/2012/02/17/some-people-believe-running-an-electric-fan-in-a-closed-room-can-kill-you/
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During extremely hot weather, heat can cause fatalities. Because fans can increase the rate at which your body temperature increases, the EPA does caution against using a fan at temperatures above 90�F (32�C). |
However:
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Don�t mistake this as a suggestion that fans can kill you � you are at risk of dying in extreme heat whether you use a fan or not. In terms of Korean fan death, the 90�F warning is still 6� higher than the average high temperature in South Korea. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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So what's your point? Most scientists believe in UFOs too, mathematically it would be stupid not too.
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Carl Sagan, astronomer of Cornell University, State of New York, said before the debate, at the annual meeting of the Committee of Scientific Investigations of Unusual Phenomena (organization dedicated to the denial of supernatural powers, whose moderator was Hibbs), that �in an universe of over 100.000 galaxies, each one of them consisting of several hundred million stars, the idea that our Sun is the only star with an inhabited planet is ridiculous�. �How is it possible to believe that we are the only type of life in the Universe?� he rhetorically asked.
The orators agreed on the fact that there wasn�t until now any definitive confirmation of the existence of UFOs, but most of them declared that they believe in the existence of intelligent life beyond the Earth.
Frank Drake, dean in Natural Sciences of the California University, Santa Cruz, estimates that �the probability for intelligent life to exist in other part of the Universe is of one hundred percent, if we rely on the fact that the Chemical Evolution that produced life on Earth, exists in all the Cosmos and that there are evidences of the possible existence of the planets which gravitate around at least a dozen stars close to our Sun�.
He signaled that �it is possible for aliens to already be among us, but to have thought that the Earth is a zoo and to have preferred not to reveal their presence.�
Drake is the president of the Institute of Extraterrestrial Intelligence Research, organism financed by NASA |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Interestingly, the racist Pepsi ad was the brainchild of a black creator. Maybe he was trying to subvert racial stereotypes using subtle postmodern irony. Or maybe he was just an idiot.
Such a fine line. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Mathematically believing in intelligent life on other planets is not the same as believing in ghosts, and I think those same scientists would all agree with that. |
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crescent

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: yes.
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
As for "fan death" itself.
http://yanswersblog.com/index.php/archives/2012/02/17/some-people-believe-running-an-electric-fan-in-a-closed-room-can-kill-you/
Quote: |
During extremely hot weather, heat can cause fatalities. Because fans can increase the rate at which your body temperature increases, the EPA does caution against using a fan at temperatures above 90�F (32�C). |
However:
Quote: |
Don�t mistake this as a suggestion that fans can kill you � you are at risk of dying in extreme heat whether you use a fan or not. In terms of Korean fan death, the 90�F warning is still 6� higher than the average high temperature in South Korea. |
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Except Koreans believe that a fan in a closed room pushes the oxygen away. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of the arguments on this board inevitably descend into 'hater vs apologist' disputes with neither side willing to give way. For me, it seems like a lot of the people who constantly attack Korea are displaying real 'White Person Problems', because this is the first time they have been in the ethnic minority and been marginalized. As a mixed race child growing up in 1980s UK, I have experienced real racism, which does not really exist here.
On the other hand, the 'apologists' seem to be more 'deniers' to me, because they try to subvert legitimate complaints by using the 'it happens everywhere' line, or they go quiet in threads where it is clear there is no way to get around the truth.
The truth is somewhere in the middle. Korea is what it is. It is quite xenophobic, but we are all here simply because we speak English. Some Koreans are great (my wife and her family for example), and some are odious lowlife scumbags.
You can work hard here and get great rewards, but injustice can and does happen to people. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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No_hite_pls wrote: |
So what's your point? |
newb wrote:
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I agree, except that those superstition or urban legends were believed hundreds years ago. But believing in "fan death" in highly connected modern world is just ignorant. Thus, I was saying justice won't be served in an ignorant culture that believes in "fan death." |
My point is if any culture is ignorant because they have a large number of people believing something that is not true...then that holds true for most cultures including our home ones as well. |
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