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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
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| Of the 87 U.S. residents who came down with measles, 74 were unvaccinated: 39 under age 20, and 35 age 20 and older. 6 The CDC focused heavily on the unvaccinated measles victims while giving no time to the analysis of those vaccinated individuals who also became ill. In fact, 13 of the group (17.5%) had received the MMR vaccine but got measles anyway! While the CDC uses these incidents of disease outbreak to stress the need for vigilant adherence to the vaccine schedule, the real take home message here is that 17.5% of a group of vaccinated individuals got sick despite the vaccine. |
Um. No. According to that story, 17.5% of total infections were people who had been vaccinated. This means that of all the vaccinated Americans whom the 74 unvaccinated came into contact with, only 13 contracted the disease.
It should be common sense that, if the 74 unvaccinated infected were exposed to a completely unvaccinated population, far more than 13 additional infections would have resulted. I think your bullsh*t-o-meter is broken, Ineverlie. |
You have no basis at all upon which to make that assumption, and no, it does not mean that. It is highly unlikely that any of the 13 came into contact with any of the 74 unvaccinated. From where did you get that crazy idea? These are cases collected from all around the country.
| wikipedia wrote: |
In Ireland, vaccination was introduced in 1985. The number of cases was 99,903 in that year. Within two years, the number of cases had fallen to 201, but this fall was not sustained: case numbers in 1989, 1993 and 2000 were 1,248, 4,328 and 1,603, respectively. This country's example illustrates the need for vaccination rates greater than 95% to prevent the spread of measles.
I suppose the infection rate in Ireland just happened to be in a natural plummeting descent from 100,000/yr to 200/yr two years later, and the vaccine being introduced was coincidental. |
Or maybe it means that vaccination DOES NOT equate to immunization. I don't have the earlier epidemiologic data, and there is no link there to check the study.
| Quote: |
| From 1900 to 1963, when the measles vaccine was introduced, death rates from measles had declined from 13.3 per 100,000 to 0.2 per 100,000 � a 98% decrease. From 1900 to 1949, death rates from whooping cough declined from 12.2 per 100,000 to 0.5 per 100,000 � a 96% decrease. From 1900 to 1949, death rates from diphtheria declined from 40.3 per 100,000 to 0.4 per 100,000 � a 99% decrease. These graphs demonstrate clear and major changes in the severity of diseases well before any vaccines were introduced.22 |
It IS just coincidental: the decline in infection and death rates was already happening when the vaccines were introduced. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| wrote: |
| Of the 87 U.S. residents who came down with measles, 74 were unvaccinated: 39 under age 20, and 35 age 20 and older. 6 The CDC focused heavily on the unvaccinated measles victims while giving no time to the analysis of those vaccinated individuals who also became ill. In fact, 13 of the group (17.5%) had received the MMR vaccine but got measles anyway! While the CDC uses these incidents of disease outbreak to stress the need for vigilant adherence to the vaccine schedule, the real take home message here is that 17.5% of a group of vaccinated individuals got sick despite the vaccine. |
Um. No. According to that story, 17.5% of total infections were people who had been vaccinated. This means that of all the vaccinated Americans whom the 74 unvaccinated came into contact with, only 13 contracted the disease.
It should be common sense that, if the 74 unvaccinated infected were exposed to a completely unvaccinated population, far more than 13 additional infections would have resulted. I think your bullsh*t-o-meter is broken, Ineverlie. |
You have no basis at all upon which to make that assumption, and no, it does not mean that. It is highly unlikely that any of the 13 came into contact with any of the 74 unvaccinated. From where did you get that crazy idea? These are cases collected from all around the country. |
I guess you missed the part where I pointed out that your source completely misrepresented the data (the bold part). Regardless, you can't have it both ways, either:
The vaccine protected ALL of the Americans whom the 74 unvaccinated-infected came into contact with. Since I severely doubt measles infected 74 hermits.
OR
The vaccine failed to protect a total of 13 Americans whom the 74 unvaccinated-infected came into contact with.
Either way that's a decent success rate.
As to the rest of your post, the infection rates for those diseases decreased over the course of decades. The introduction of a measles vaccine to Ireland cut the infection rate from 100,000 to 200 in just two years.
Don't get me wrong here, I 100% support your right to not be vaccinated. For all I care, you can forgo all modern medical care. But your argument that the measles vaccine did more harm than good is completely ignoring the facts. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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The woman is a pathological liar . . .
Bachmann: I haven't had a gaffe
. . . so it makes sense that she is a US Presidential candidate. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: |
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The other night the 'Christian' (sans Mormon) candidates had a 'debate' in Des Moines. To get things off on the 'right' foot, Michele poured water for all the male candidates.
I had flashes of Angela Merkel doing the same at some international conference. Or Golda Meier. It didn't work. I couldn't picture it. Obama gets nailed for bowing to foreign leaders and apologizing, but it would be A-OK for Bachmann to serve water to Putin?
I don't think so.
It was just too flakey. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Jimmy Fallon's band introduces Michelle Bachmann . . .
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| This morning, Bachmann appeared on Fox News to say NBC owes her an apology and �that had it been Michelle Obama and that song had been played, I have no doubt that NBC would have apologized.� Bachmann squarely named the song selection/title �sexism� (as did feminist bloggers). |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| It was an inside joke that few who were watching would have got, but still, it was crass. And she got her apology. I'm sure she took the line of Hollywood stars of the old days: There is no such thing as bad publicity. (Which seems to be the line of the Romney campaign on their lie in their first ad...well, shucks, it was Obama's voice.) |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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The soon-to-be-immortal Barney Frank said this yesterday (and is scoring well in the 'Quote of the Day' sweepstakes):
Retiring member of Congress Barney Frank on the House under Republican rule: "It consists half of people who think like Michele Bachmann and half of people who are afraid of losing a primary to people who think like Michele Bachmann and that leaves very little room to work things out."
Barney will be missed. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
The soon-to-be-immortal Barney Frank said this yesterday (and is scoring well in the 'Quote of the Day' sweepstakes):
Retiring member of Congress Barney Frank on the House under Republican rule: "It consists half of people who think like Michele Bachmann and half of people who are afraid of losing a primary to people who think like Michele Bachmann and that leaves very little room to work things out."
Barney will be missed. |
Pretty funny, I also will miss Barney but Bernie Sanders is still there. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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This could be a career ender for Michelle Bachmann
Michelle Bachmann faces multiple ethics questions.
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The Iowa investigation, looking into whether the campaign improperly paid a state senator, is just one of at least three different probes examining a range of allegations related to Bachmann�s failed presidential campaign, including charges that she improperly used campaign funds to promote her book, that her campaign �launder[ed]� money, and that one of her staffers stole an email list from a home-school organization.
Two former staffers, including her former chief of staff, have agreed to testify against Bachmann, which Holman said is �very unusual� and something that will push investigators at the Federal Elections Commission and the Office of Congressional Ethics, each of which reportedly has its own investigations into the campaign, to take the matter seriously.
| MN Prof Larry Jacobs wrote: |
| These charges are particularly damaging because they cut to the core of her greatest strength among her followers, which is her authenticity. This cloud of questions has now enveloped her in the �usual politics� label and what I�ve heard from her supporters � and this is obviously not a scientific sample � is, �she�s just like the rest of them . . .' |
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. . . except stupider. |
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