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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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 Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
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| Rick Steves is a European travel expert. That's the link to his wiki page. In this article he says, "Tipping in Europe isn't as automatic and generous as it is in the United States, but in many countries, tips are appreciated, if not expected." And also, "Restaurant tips are more modest in Europe than in America. At restaurants, check the menu to see if service is included; if it isn't, a tip of 5-10 percent is normal." |
Is he American by any chance? Because I've spent quite a bit of time in Europe, and so has rambler, and we're telling you that you're wrong.
The tipping expectations of an American tourist and a local are often very different. |
I can see how this is true. However, if they include a "service charge" on your receipt then that is mandatory tipping. |
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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| War Eagle wrote: |
| However, if they include a "service charge" on your receipt then that is mandatory tipping. |
No, it isn't. If it was a "mandatory" part of the bill, then it wouldn't be a tip. By the same token, you could try arguing that the price of every individual item contains an amount to cover the service provided and therefore that too is "mandatory tipping". I say "try arguing" because it's an argument you'd have no chance of convincing many folk with.
Look, I quite understand that where you come from, tipping is very much expected and that many people who've got used to that in their home country perhaps feel comfortable giving tips elsewhere in other countries where there is much less expectation of it, and sometimes none at all. Perfectly fair enough. But it does seem that you don't realise how no-one would've batted an eyelid at all in those other countries you gave tips in had you not done so.
Again, if you don't want to realise that and are happier doing what you feel comfy with, then good for you. |
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| b-class rambler wrote: |
| War Eagle wrote: |
| However, if they include a "service charge" on your receipt then that is mandatory tipping. |
No, it isn't. If it was a "mandatory" part of the bill, then it wouldn't be a tip. By the same token, you could try arguing that the price of every individual item contains an amount to cover the service provided and therefore that too is "mandatory tipping". I say "try arguing" because it's an argument you'd have no chance of convincing many folk with.
Look, I quite understand that where you come from, tipping is very much expected and that many people who've got used to that in their home country perhaps feel comfortable giving tips elsewhere in other countries where there is much less expectation of it, and sometimes none at all. Perfectly fair enough. But it does seem that you don't realise how no-one would've batted an eyelid at all in those other countries you gave tips in had you not done so.
Again, if you don't want to realise that and are happier doing what you feel comfy with, then good for you. |
Yes, it is. If there is a service charge on your bill that you are required to pay, it is mandatory tipping. Now, if the wait staff get paid a flat hourly rate regardless of the amount of work they do it is not tipping. But I would imagine a "service charge" is money that is given to the wait staff. The more customers they service, the more money they make. That's tipping. |
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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| War Eagle wrote: |
| If there is a service charge on your bill that you are required to pay, it is mandatory tipping. Now, if the wait staff get paid a flat hourly rate regardless of the amount of work they do it is not tipping. But I would imagine a "service charge" is money that is given to the wait staff. |
So what you're saying is - yes, it is, but it might not be. But you would "imagine" it is. 
Well, as I said above, if you're happy doing whatever you do when you're leaving a restaurant in Europe, then absolutely fair enough. No need to tie yourself in knots to try and justify it. The fact that you're personally comfortable doing that should be the only justification required. |
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| b-class rambler wrote: |
| War Eagle wrote: |
| If there is a service charge on your bill that you are required to pay, it is mandatory tipping. Now, if the wait staff get paid a flat hourly rate regardless of the amount of work they do it is not tipping. But I would imagine a "service charge" is money that is given to the wait staff. |
So what you're saying is - yes, it is, but it might not be. But you would "imagine" it is.
Well, as I said above, if you're happy doing whatever you do when you're leaving a restaurant in Europe, then absolutely fair enough. No need to tie yourself in knots to try and justify it. The fact that you're personally comfortable doing that should be the only justification required. |
Haha, just like a good debate is all 
EDIT: In my office now. I hate typing on the Android on the subway; I don't have the patience to express myself properly with small keys 
Sorry, "imagine" is a poor choice of words. I would wager service charges are split between service staff.
And, before I never mentioned my personal tipping etiquette in Eurpoe, the US or Korea. I'm a "when in Rome" person. I don't tip in Korea.
EDIT x2: And what is it today with people cutting out portions of quotes that help prove a point and then commenting on what suits their needs? |
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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| War Eagle wrote: |
Sorry, "imagine" is a poor choice of words. I would wager service charges are split between service staff.
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No problem, "wager" it is then. But that still means you're guessing and don't really have any idea at all what actually happens. And, after all, why should you when it's countries foreign to you that you have little experience of other than travelling there?
Yes, we are going round in circles a bit here and I apologise for my part in taking this thread rather off topic. But I'd stand by my original point that you'd have been better off sticking to the countries you really do know about and perhaps clarifying your comparison as Korea v. the US or North America. |
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| b-class rambler wrote: |
| War Eagle wrote: |
Sorry, "imagine" is a poor choice of words. I would wager service charges are split between service staff.
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No problem, "wager" it is then. But that still means you're guessing and don't really have any idea at all what actually happens. And, after all, why should you when it's countries foreign to you that you have little experience of other than travelling there?
Yes, we are going round in circles a bit here and I apologise for my part in taking this thread rather off topic. But I'd stand by my original point that you'd have been better off sticking to the countries you really do know about and perhaps clarifying your comparison as Korea v. the US or North America. |
Agreed. It was a simple misunderstanding. I meant to say that my first post was not related to Korea (off-topic) and you interpreted that as I was generalizing the industry on a global scale. (I say this sincerely.)
Sorry OP. We hijacked your thread 
Back on topic: Personally I usually don't tip in Korea, even if the bar has foreign staff, because it's not the norm. Have I thrown a few chon won into a tip jar before? Yes, I have. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:05 am Post subject: |
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You guys are over-complicating an issue that isn't that hard. It's really simple: why do people tip?
1) The staff makes a very small wage and also gets taxed on assumed tips (true in the US and maybe some other countries).
2) As gratitude for excellent service.
In the US point #1 basically requires everyone who isn't a d-bag to tip. Point #2 would increase the tip beyond the minimum.
In Korea, point #1 is likely not a factor (but if it's a foreign server, good chance they are working illegally, and its possible they're not be getting paid in full). For ethnic Koreans, they are already being compensated appropriately, and is already reflected in your bill. You have essentially already tipped. That does not preclude you from providing an additional tip if you feel it's in order, but it's not expected.
And if possible, give it to the server, don't put it in the jar. Then you don't have to worry about the boss pinching; I have seen this happen with my own eyes here. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| HapKi wrote: |
| At Craftworks I've given my tip money directly to the waitress who served me. |
If she don't make enough money, she can quit. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doin' their job.
I ordered a beer..she only came back three times with a new beer.
When I order beer, I expect it to be refilled six times. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:13 am Post subject: |
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You don't tip for free drinks. That's just a loser in the end.
You tip big for two reasons- Faster service, because time is money, AND to be able to stay past last call. Stronger/Free drinks/darts are just a bonus.
But these have to bars where its busy enough to justify it.
You want to get that level at at least 1-2 bars where you can walk in and basically do whatever you want, get whatever you want, and the establishment will back you up in any incident. It's about being able to bum a smoke off the bartender or waitress at the end of the night and it not being weird. It's about being able to get YOUR sporting event on the TV. It's about that time when you come in with a special group and you get special drinks made.
There's nothing better than being able to walk into a packed bar with your group, see that the bar is packed. Walk behind the bar, start pouring out shots for your party while the bartender says "just keep track" while everyone else is hollering and pushing.
Drinking is serious business and tipping is a part of it. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:33 am Post subject: |
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My bar-tipping custom in Korea is to tell a pleasant server to have a drink on my tab. Its always appreciated (though sometimes politely declined), I've never had that offer abused, & it stands me in good stead with the staff.
More in line with Asian sharing culture, I think, than a cash tip. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| I've stopped tipping Koreans because most of the time when I did tip them they never said thank you. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
You don't tip for free drinks. That's just a loser in the end.
You tip big for two reasons- Faster service, because time is money, AND to be able to stay past last call. Stronger/Free drinks/darts are just a bonus.
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You want fast service at McDonald's and the local Star Mart liquor store, but you don't feel the need to tip them.
They're servin' you food, but society says...
"Don't tip these guys over here, but tip these guys." That's bs
I'm very sorry their bosses steal money out of the glass jars.
That's jacked up. That ain't my fault.
It would appear that waitresses are one of the many groups...that the owners gets his way with on a regular basis.
Show me a paper that says that they shouldn't do that, I'll sign it.
I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball.
If you're expectin' me to help out with the rent, you're in for a big surprise. |
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
You don't tip for free drinks. That's just a loser in the end.
You tip big for two reasons- Faster service, because time is money, AND to be able to stay past last call. Stronger/Free drinks/darts are just a bonus.
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You want fast service at McDonald's and the local Star Mart liquor store, but you don't feel the need to tip them.
They're servin' you food, but society says...
"Don't tip these guys over here, but tip these guys." That's bs
I'm very sorry their bosses steal money out of the glass jars.
That's jacked up. That ain't my fault.
It would appear that waitresses are one of the many groups...that the owners gets his way with on a regular basis.
Show me a paper that says that they shouldn't do that, I'll sign it.
I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball.
If you're expectin' me to help out with the rent, you're in for a big surprise. |
Classic Buscemi. Love it. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| War Eagle wrote: |
| Died By Bear wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
You don't tip for free drinks. That's just a loser in the end.
You tip big for two reasons- Faster service, because time is money, AND to be able to stay past last call. Stronger/Free drinks/darts are just a bonus.
|
You want fast service at McDonald's and the local Star Mart liquor store, but you don't feel the need to tip them.
They're servin' you food, but society says...
"Don't tip these guys over here, but tip these guys." That's bs
I'm very sorry their bosses steal money out of the glass jars.
That's jacked up. That ain't my fault.
It would appear that waitresses are one of the many groups...that the owners gets his way with on a regular basis.
Show me a paper that says that they shouldn't do that, I'll sign it.
I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball.
If you're expectin' me to help out with the rent, you're in for a big surprise. |
Classic Buscemi. Love it. |
Just look in my eyes, Larry. Look in my eyes. |
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