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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:17 am Post subject: Seoul:Ugly on the Outside or A Frugal Expat Paradise Inside? |
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Few people would ever consider using �Seoul� and �paradise� in the same sentence, and there�s for good reason for this. Eleven million overworked people living on top of each other in an over-polluted ocean of drab highrise apartment buildings, a mere 120 miles from the world�s best known fear-mongering, nuclear-armed man-child, hardly conjures visions of Shangri-La.
Yet, despite all this, here I am. Here we are, the Seoul English teacher expats; it�s hard to say how many of us there are, but the number easily exceeds ten-thousand, if not fifteen. Could this many people have lost their minds, or are we on to something? Many of us left gorgeous home cities to come live in this mess, but why?
Admittedly, on surface level, Seoul might appear to be a rather dismal place to live, but the reality, as we all know, is that it is anything but dismal. Yes, it is often grimy, ugly, and oppressively utilitarian by design, but it�s also a slow-boiling charmer and a tremendous heap of good, cheap fun. I didn�t tell many people this, but I disliked Seoul in a lot of ways when I first arrived in 2010. At that time I had a hard time seeing how I could possibly last an entire year here. Now, three years later, here I am lapping praise on the land of morning calm.
Essentially, my love of this city boils down to output maximization. How can I maximize output(fun/high-quality food/etc.), while minimizing input(money)? Seoul is vibrant, thriving, and above all, economical. As far as the ESL world is concerned, there is simply no better Asian city for frugal living. Sure, Phnom Penh might be cheaper, but the wages are commensurate with the low cost of living. On the other end of the spectrum are places like Tokyo, where ESL income soars, but potential for saving remains limited due to outlandishly expensive goods and services. |
http://kimchibytes.com/2013/05/09/seoul-ugly-on-the-outside-or-a-frugal-expat-paradise-inside/
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| The high income and low cost of living in Seoul are wonderful, but they only make up half of what makes it so easy to live frugally here. Just as important, in my opinion, is the fact that most ESL teachers earn roughly the same income. There is a sense of economic equality here that I�ve never experienced in any other community. ESL teachers certainly don�t struggle financially, but we aren�t rich either. Lifestyles tend to be modest, not particularly flashy. Nobody owns a big fancy house, nor an expensive car (or any car, for that matter). There is no need to keep up with the Jones�, because the Jones� tend to be right at your same level. |
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markness
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Why does he need to spill the beans like that?  |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with his overall idea with a couple caveats:
1) Large swaths of Seoul are a bit ugly and dingy, but there are parts of the city with more aesthetic appeal (most around Cheongdam, Sinsa, and Samseong).
2) Not all ESL expats want to live frugally. He says he usually spends less than 100,000 won a week and around 50,000 each weekend. This month, I've spent an average of 60,000 won a day. But I guess when you're young you can be that stingy and still have fun. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:36 am Post subject: |
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There's both good and bad in Seoul largely depending on what you like and how you want to live.
I wish someone wouldn't claim to speak for "all" expats or English teachers because everyone's situation is different. Some are here just to have a blast while others are here to save money, and others are trying to do both at the same time. Like I said, everyone's situation is different and no one can claim to speak for everyone. |
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jjajangmyun
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: way down south!
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| Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| dairyairy wrote: |
There's both good and bad in Seoul largely depending on what you like and how you want to live.
I wish someone wouldn't claim to speak for "all" expats or English teachers because everyone's situation is different. Some are here just to have a blast while others are here to save money, and others are trying to do both at the same time. Like I said, everyone's situation is different and no one can claim to speak for everyone. |
yes.
especially if you've only been here 3 years. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| jjajangmyun wrote: |
| dairyairy wrote: |
There's both good and bad in Seoul largely depending on what you like and how you want to live.
I wish someone wouldn't claim to speak for "all" expats or English teachers because everyone's situation is different. Some are here just to have a blast while others are here to save money, and others are trying to do both at the same time. Like I said, everyone's situation is different and no one can claim to speak for everyone. |
yes.
especially if you've only been here 3 years. |
3 years is long enough to have an impression and a good feel for the country. |
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FDNY
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Seoul:Ugly on the Outside or A Frugal Expat Paradise Ins |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Just as important, in my opinion, is the fact that most ESL teachers earn roughly the same income. There is a sense of economic equality here that I've never experienced in any other community. ESL teachers certainly don�t struggle financially, but we aren't rich either. Lifestyles tend to be modest, not particularly flashy. Nobody owns a big fancy house, nor an expensive car (or any car, for that matter). There is no need to keep up with the Jones�, because the Jones� tend to be right at your same level. |
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He's wrong here. I would say only E-2s are roughly equal. If you can get an F-2, F-5 or and F-7, then your income should triple or quadruple quite easily. I also know many expats here who have amazing 70 pyong apartments and nice cars. And yes, they are also teachers. |
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newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:51 pm Post subject: Re: Seoul:Ugly on the Outside or A Frugal Expat Paradise Ins |
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| FDNY wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Just as important, in my opinion, is the fact that most ESL teachers earn roughly the same income. There is a sense of economic equality here that I've never experienced in any other community. ESL teachers certainly don�t struggle financially, but we aren't rich either. Lifestyles tend to be modest, not particularly flashy. Nobody owns a big fancy house, nor an expensive car (or any car, for that matter). There is no need to keep up with the Jones�, because the Jones� tend to be right at your same level. |
He's wrong here. I would say only E-2s are roughly equal. If you can get an F-2, F-5 or and F-7, then your income should triple or quadruple quite easily. I also know many expats here who have amazing 70 pyong apartments and nice cars. And yes, they are also teachers. |
Yep, keeping up with the jones' with 70 pyong apartment and Mercedes 600 series. Becoming 'house poor and car poor'. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Seoul:Ugly on the Outside or A Frugal Expat Paradise Ins |
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| FDNY wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Just as important, in my opinion, is the fact that most ESL teachers earn roughly the same income. There is a sense of economic equality here that I've never experienced in any other community. ESL teachers certainly don�t struggle financially, but we aren't rich either. Lifestyles tend to be modest, not particularly flashy. Nobody owns a big fancy house, nor an expensive car (or any car, for that matter). There is no need to keep up with the Jones�, because the Jones� tend to be right at your same level. |
He's wrong here. I would say only E-2s are roughly equal. If you can get an F-2, F-5 or and F-7, then your income should triple or quadruple quite easily. I also know many expats here who have amazing 70 pyong apartments and nice cars. And yes, they are also teachers. |
I agree with you on the whole; certainly not all teachers are making around 2.0 to 2.5 million a month. But I must point out that you can make good money on an E-2. There are teachers on E-2 visas who make money in the 4, 5, 6 million won a month range or more provided they have a good hagwon job in Daechi or Apgujeong or the like. I should know, since I've been one of them for years. But yeah, with an F visa, making more money becomes easier, but certainly not easy. I've met a good number of F-series visa holders earning only around 3 or 4 million a month by working two regular hagwon jobs and such. It takes a bit more talent, ambition, and elbow grease to be making more than 6 million a month, even with an F visa.
And I don't deny that there are teachers with 70 pyeong apartments, but I wonder how they got them. I assume they have jonsae, since the rent on a 70 pyeong apartment would be at least 5 million a month, too much for somebody consistently earning even 10 million won a month.
Also, by F-7 visa, do you mean F-6 or E-7? I've never heard of an F-7 visa, though I suppose there is such a thing. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Seoul:Ugly on the Outside or A Frugal Expat Paradise Ins |
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| newb wrote: |
| FDNY wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Just as important, in my opinion, is the fact that most ESL teachers earn roughly the same income. There is a sense of economic equality here that I've never experienced in any other community. ESL teachers certainly don�t struggle financially, but we aren't rich either. Lifestyles tend to be modest, not particularly flashy. Nobody owns a big fancy house, nor an expensive car (or any car, for that matter). There is no need to keep up with the Jones�, because the Jones� tend to be right at your same level. |
He's wrong here. I would say only E-2s are roughly equal. If you can get an F-2, F-5 or and F-7, then your income should triple or quadruple quite easily. I also know many expats here who have amazing 70 pyong apartments and nice cars. And yes, they are also teachers. |
Yep, keeping up with the jones' with 70 pyong apartment and Mercedes 600 series. Becoming 'house poor and car poor'. |
This only applies to E2's. Koreans do try to keep up with "the Joneses". English teachers don't have to fit in. There are nice areas and bad areas of Seoul. Compared to out here in the provinces, Seoul does seem like paradise. I just can't afford the pay cut to live there. Rents can be high, but the key money system can be a life saver to keep rents down. I wish more cities around the world did this.  |
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Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| He's wrong here. I would say only E-2s are roughly equal. If you can get an F-2, F-5 or and F-7, then your income should triple or quadruple quite easily. I also know many expats here who have amazing 70 pyong apartments and nice cars. And yes, they are also teachers. |
A comment like this is due every thread where money is mentioned.
I guess not only are they earning 10-15mill a month but they probably only teach 6 classes a week and have 9 months vacation a year? |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:15 am Post subject: |
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I managed 4-5 easily enough; averaged over a whole year I was making what the average Korean Salaryman would make without the long term security, the stress or the long hours.
Overall not a bad package. I've heard of the 10 million won club, but I think there's some special skills in there, or someone who took a risk and started a business.
It certainly doesn't come without some kind of tradeoff. |
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