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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| metalhead wrote: |
I guess a good way to put it is that Korea is sterile. If you want a real Asian experience, go to China.
I still think Korea is better for saving though, simply because there is less to do here (for me at least).
Not being able to buy clothes I like and/or clothes that fit are a huge factor, too. There is only one of everything in Korea in any case - one style of clothes, one spice in food, one style of building, one way to think, one taxi to take - anyone that has lived here should know what I mean. |
I like Korea because Koreans are very direct and non PC. It means I get to be this way too. Had some older women question me once about foriegners preying on Korean women. I replied by asking about Korean men using Soju to lure Korean women. It was awesome. We both got to speak our mind and never get in trouble. I've been blunt with Koreans and have never gotten into trouble. So, being direct, emotional, and all that stuff is fine by me.
It's when I meet some westerners, who start going all PC on me, that annoy me. Koreans are chill, even if there are occasional bouts of xenophobia. They leave me along and don't bug me. So, it's cool. |
I have to say, the aspect of Koreans being very direct and how it impacted me is something that I still have problems with.
Backstory: I worked and lived in Korea for 9 years. I became VERY direct as I found it was the only way to get through exactly what I wanted. I think at times, perhaps I enjoyed this lifestyle as there was no consequences for being direct.
Fast Forward: I went back to Canada to upgrade my education: family and friends had a hard time dealing with my directness.
Fast Forward-pt2: I finished school and landed a job in China at an international school: coworkers and students sometimes have a problem with my directness and I am 1000x more chill then when I first stepped off the plane in Canada back in 2006.
It is a blessing about being in Korea, but since the rest of the world doesn't operate like that, it has been a curse that I have been trying to get rid of. I absolutely despise the whole PC culture, but I am still trying to get my non-direct skills worked out. Honestly, I am wondering if it will ever happen as I have been out of Korea for 7 years and I am still direct with people without even realizing it! |
Maybe, I should remember this then? I take it the Chinese are not like this then? Korea has probably had this effect on me too.... |
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markness
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| metalhead wrote: |
I guess a good way to put it is that Korea is sterile. If you want a real Asian experience, go to China.
I still think Korea is better for saving though, simply because there is less to do here (for me at least).
Not being able to buy clothes I like and/or clothes that fit are a huge factor, too. There is only one of everything in Korea in any case - one style of clothes, one spice in food, one style of building, one way to think, one taxi to take - anyone that has lived here should know what I mean. |
I like Korea because Koreans are very direct and non PC. It means I get to be this way too. Had some older women question me once about foriegners preying on Korean women. I replied by asking about Korean men using Soju to lure Korean women. It was awesome. We both got to speak our mind and never get in trouble. I've been blunt with Koreans and have never gotten into trouble. So, being direct, emotional, and all that stuff is fine by me.
It's when I meet some westerners, who start going all PC on me, that annoy me. Koreans are chill, even if there are occasional bouts of xenophobia. They leave me along and don't bug me. So, it's cool. |
I have to say, the aspect of Koreans being very direct and how it impacted me is something that I still have problems with.
Backstory: I worked and lived in Korea for 9 years. I became VERY direct as I found it was the only way to get through exactly what I wanted. I think at times, perhaps I enjoyed this lifestyle as there was no consequences for being direct.
Fast Forward: I went back to Canada to upgrade my education: family and friends had a hard time dealing with my directness.
Fast Forward-pt2: I finished school and landed a job in China at an international school: coworkers and students sometimes have a problem with my directness and I am 1000x more chill then when I first stepped off the plane in Canada back in 2006.
It is a blessing about being in Korea, but since the rest of the world doesn't operate like that, it has been a curse that I have been trying to get rid of. I absolutely despise the whole PC culture, but I am still trying to get my non-direct skills worked out. Honestly, I am wondering if it will ever happen as I have been out of Korea for 7 years and I am still direct with people without even realizing it! |
Maybe, I should remember this then? I take it the Chinese are not like this then? Korea has probably had this effect on me too.... |
The Chinese are really indirect. You never directly ask for something, you kind of have to hint at it. For example, you have a girlfriend and she says to you: "That jacket looks nice". What she is trying to say is that she wants you to buy it 
And in a professional environment you cannot go out and make demands to the boss or else he will treat you like a soiled diaper. I think that is where people get in trouble. We aren't really supposed to speak our minds or else you will turn out like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB8v2SM80hA
You may have your pride, but you'll never retain your job!!! |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| markness wrote: |
| You kind of answered my question, I should have read more. And yeah, China seems more dull (from what I've heard from people who've lived from Seoul in compassion), this makes me want to give Seoul a try. |
I lived in Seoul for 5 years in some popular areas (Apkujung and the Konkkuk Uni area). It was fun living there, but did get stale after a couple of years. I will tell you this, however, Shanghai is far from dull and is better in nearly every way to me. Give Seoul a try, most likely you'll enjoy it there, but don't rule out Shanghai or other good cities in China if the Seoul market is tough to break into now.
When I lived in Korea I always took the opportunity to travel out of the country during breaks. Sure, I'd gone to many of the other places in Korea during long weekends, holidays etc..., but things were pretty much one in the same. I'm in year 3 in Shanghai and the only time I've left the country was to go back to the States to see family with my wife. There is a lot to do and see in China, so I've had no itch to go to other Asian destinations yet. |
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markness
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| byrddogs wrote: |
| markness wrote: |
| You kind of answered my question, I should have read more. And yeah, China seems more dull (from what I've heard from people who've lived from Seoul in compassion), this makes me want to give Seoul a try. |
I lived in Seoul for 5 years in some popular areas (Apkujung and the Konkkuk Uni area). It was fun living there, but did get stale after a couple of years. I will tell you this, however, Shanghai is far from dull and is better in nearly every way to me. Give Seoul a try, most likely you'll enjoy it there, but don't rule out Shanghai or other good cities in China if the Seoul market is tough to break into now.
When I lived in Korea I always took the opportunity to travel out of the country during breaks. Sure, I'd gone to many of the other places in Korea during long weekends, holidays etc..., but things were pretty much one in the same. I'm in year 3 in Shanghai and the only time I've left the country was to go back to the States to see family with my wife. There is a lot to do and see in China, so I've had no itch to go to other Asian destinations yet. |
Great to know bud. So the Shanghai nightlife scene isn't too bad? I lived in a T2 city before in China, so it wasn't the megacity but I am worried that if Shanghai followed the same pattern as this T2 city I lived in, that would mean that a lot of the bars catered to foreigners meaning that it was mainly foreigners inside of it, and in a way its nice, but in an another way, that isn't the reason a lot of us go to bars, haha! Is that the case? Also are a lot of jobs in Shanghai following the typical 6 day Chinese work week? Thanks again! |
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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:31 am Post subject: |
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You kinda just described Beijing bars.
Chinese people usually prefer megaclubs where they can get bottle service and they can play dice while seeing and being seen. |
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markness
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| nukeday wrote: |
You kinda just described Beijing bars.
Chinese people usually prefer megaclubs where they can get bottle service and they can play dice while seeing and being seen. |
Yeah it was a bit off. I was shamelessly a cheap b&stard because the bottles were like 1000RMB per, and that was like a sixth of my salary at the time, lol. Beijing seems a bit bunk, if I were to do up China, i'd do up a T2 city that has nice weather (chengdu), and then maybe head on down to Guangzhou or Shenzhen, the only kicker about China seems to be the lack of initial flight payment and "meh" nightlife. People tell me it's more fun in Seoul for a younger person, just wasn't sure whether there was credibility to this statement or not. |
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abigolblackman
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Ah man, I'm glad someone brought this up.
I was in Korea from 2008-2012. Made the move to Beijing and HAVE NOT BEEN DISAPPOINTED job wise but HAVE BEEN SORELY DISAPPOINTED nightlife wise.
As far as jobs go, there are plenty of them here in Beijing and I am making more here than I was in Korea, and I was making good money in Korea as well. As long as you're willing to work you can. I'm pretty much a freelancer now but anyone that hires me offers me a work visa as well, even though I already have one, so I'm not doing any illegal stuff either. I worked my ass off in Korea to get to a nice income level and yeah, I can easily say I was held back by being black, but I got to that nice above average level. In China, I can't say I've been turned down for an interview or position I've applied for yet. And good money is being offered.
But the nightlife kills me. Beijing is too big of a city and if you plan on doing a similar Hongdae, Itaewon, Gangnam trifecta, it just ain't gonna happen here in Beijing. The think that surprised me the most was that I went back to Korea for a visit last week and I was constantly surprised at how much Seoul was than Beijing. I never thought Seoul was really expensive unles you wanted it to be, but after living in Beijing for 10 months and checking out Seoul for a week, the comparision is ridiculous.
BEIJING IS EXPENSIVE and that ranges from alcohol, clothes, accesories, norebangs, food (not just western food, just food), etc. I took 2G's to Seoul expecting the worst, and after buying more stuff than I could carry home, taking a three day trip to the west coast, staying in nice hotels every night, and eating Korean BBQ everynight like it was going out of style, I only spent about half of that.
I'm not really feeling Beijing, but at the same time I'm not judging the whole country of China based on my experience here. I will give other cities a chance and I got even better positions set up for my next contract already. In my week trip to Korea, I quickly realized the many reasons I had had enough of the place and wanted to leave, so I'm not regretting leaving.
For me, I understand why people life it in Korea. It's very comfortable. If you are comfortable with glass cielings that is. I'm not and wanted to expand my horizons so I moved on. I think if you're ready to try other countries or want to give China a try, go ahead. But I DO NOT RECOMMEND YOU TO COME TO BEIJING. I can't speak for the rest of China but this place sucks socially.
I wrote this in a hurry so some other things Seoul is better than Beijing are: women (that's a given) and foreigners (yeah, worse than Seoul, think about that). |
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markness
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hey bigolblackman, thanks for the input there. I think that it's also important to consider what you NET afterwards, and that is where there is some appeal to Seoul. China is cool in the sense that you can make a lot of money, but at the same time it doesn't seem that they include the apartment, or airfare. (They reimburse afterwards it seems, but its like 5-600 dollars of your flight and comes in bonus form). But very interesting points on the nightlife. And good to know that my suspicion of the nightlife was correct.
The kicker for me when I spent time in China was the expat scene. I was in a T2 town, not a megacity, but there were enough expats to get to make some friends. However, the problem was generally they had girlfriends or were married or were older, so going out with them for a beer after work on a Friday was nearly impossible. And the 6 day work weeks.. those were bunk.
Who wants to sleep in on Saturday and Sunday mornings anyways? :p |
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markness
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| abigolblackman wrote: |
Ah man, I'm glad someone brought this up.
I was in Korea from 2008-2012. Made the move to Beijing and HAVE NOT BEEN DISAPPOINTED job wise but HAVE BEEN SORELY DISAPPOINTED nightlife wise.
As far as jobs go, there are plenty of them here in Beijing and I am making more here than I was in Korea, and I was making good money in Korea as well. As long as you're willing to work you can. I'm pretty much a freelancer now but anyone that hires me offers me a work visa as well, even though I already have one, so I'm not doing any illegal stuff either. I worked my ass off in Korea to get to a nice income level and yeah, I can easily say I was held back by being black, but I got to that nice above average level. In China, I can't say I've been turned down for an interview or position I've applied for yet. And good money is being offered.
But the nightlife kills me. Beijing is too big of a city and if you plan on doing a similar Hongdae, Itaewon, Gangnam trifecta, it just ain't gonna happen here in Beijing. The think that surprised me the most was that I went back to Korea for a visit last week and I was constantly surprised at how much Seoul was than Beijing. I never thought Seoul was really expensive unles you wanted it to be, but after living in Beijing for 10 months and checking out Seoul for a week, the comparision is ridiculous.
BEIJING IS EXPENSIVE and that ranges from alcohol, clothes, accesories, norebangs, food (not just western food, just food), etc. I took 2G's to Seoul expecting the worst, and after buying more stuff than I could carry home, taking a three day trip to the west coast, staying in nice hotels every night, and eating Korean BBQ everynight like it was going out of style, I only spent about half of that.
I'm not really feeling Beijing, but at the same time I'm not judging the whole country of China based on my experience here. I will give other cities a chance and I got even better positions set up for my next contract already. In my week trip to Korea, I quickly realized the many reasons I had had enough of the place and wanted to leave, so I'm not regretting leaving.
For me, I understand why people life it in Korea. It's very comfortable. If you are comfortable with glass cielings that is. I'm not and wanted to expand my horizons so I moved on. I think if you're ready to try other countries or want to give China a try, go ahead. But I DO NOT RECOMMEND YOU TO COME TO BEIJING. I can't speak for the rest of China but this place sucks socially.
I wrote this in a hurry so some other things Seoul is better than Beijing are: women (that's a given) and foreigners (yeah, worse than Seoul, think about that). |
Just to give you a heads up.. this is from:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=102162&sid=bc4877e4d7705c71a021b818bfbb3ff1
"Please read this email that was sent to a friend of my friend. I hope it will influence teachers not to work for this school.
Hi,
This is Sunny from talkingstreet english. We have received your CV.
I am afraid that I have to say sorry about this.
don't mean to be racist or offensive. our school doesn't hire black people. I believe that you are a good teacher.
Sorry again. thanks for calling
------------------
Sunny
唐宁街英语 Talkingstreet English
电话：0574-87658419
传真：0574-87051566
地址：宁波老外滩人民路98号
www.talkingstreet.com.cn"
Hopefully you don't get bit like that too. |
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: abigolblackman |
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I have to say "abigolblackman" experiences do not jive with mine.
Yeah I agree that Beijing nightlife sucks.
That's about all I agree on.
I find the Chinese to be much, much, much more racist than Koreans.
Koreans aren't really racist at all. This has been well documented.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5hycsP002g
It's impossible to make any real money in China. Your main employer will probably be a language mill. They will keep you very busy (indeed too busy) to do any side work.
If you want to bank a ton of money stay in Korea. |
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abigolblackman
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hey creeper1
Just to give some perspective, I have over 5 year experience in this industry along with a CELTA. I'm not sure how that matches up with your work background but I have no problems getting jobs here that pay me my worth. I also see you're working for EF which is one of the most notoriously bad training centers in China, so I can understand where you're point of view comes from in terms of money and hours. I don't work more than 3 hours a day and I stack my weekends cause that's where most of the bread is.
Just because this one particular black girl is a Korean Evangelist doesn't mean it's been well documented that Koreans are not racist and she doesn't represents the community. In my 4 years in Korea I've met nice, impolite, and racist Koreans. Anyone wanting specifics, feel free to PM me. But yes, Koreans can be racist and I've yet to experience anything on the level of what I experienced in Korea in China. (And yes, I speak korean if anyone wants to make that point.)
Also, anyone looking for multiple perspectives on racism in Korea from the Black communities, check out the "Brothas and Sistas of South Korea" Facebook group. I would link you but I got rid of my facebook awhile ago. But I think that's a better account of "Documentation" than what was previously offered. |
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