|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
|
 Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
And a lot of them will throw themselves under the bus to save her face.
You don't get it, do you. It's the family's integrity that matters. If the family's name is threatened then someone will take the fall. |
I get it. He threw the entire country under the bus. Very honorable of him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| newb wrote: |
| Quote: |
And a lot of them will throw themselves under the bus to save her face.
You don't get it, do you. It's the family's integrity that matters. If the family's name is threatened then someone will take the fall. |
I get it. He threw the entire country under the bus. Very honorable of him. |
Now that is certainly possible. Ties of family, believe it or not, supersede nationality here. Dishonorable, I agree.
But so will a lot of people from all over the world, unless you think that in every other country people don't try to weasel out from under the law.
Isn't that what a lawyer is for in half the cases back home? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Once again a thread turns to Korean dudes are bad. |
Although it is unfair to make such a broad generalization, there does exist a certain type of misogyny almost unique to Korea because of their Confucianist ideals. Interesting article in the Korean Times:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2013/05/116_135501.html
"The chauvinistic, Confucian-steeped society lies behind the die-hard sexism here � when sexually assaulted, victims, including their families, scramble to cover up rather than to actively report it to the police for fear their career would be ruined.
Yoo Mee-sook, a professor at Seoul-based Sookmyung Womens University, noted that the overall atmosphere of society fosters such behavior and sex offenders try to take advantage of it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| newb wrote: |
| Quote: |
And a lot of them will throw themselves under the bus to save her face.
You don't get it, do you. It's the family's integrity that matters. If the family's name is threatened then someone will take the fall. |
I get it. He threw the entire country under the bus. Very honorable of him. |
Now that is certainly possible. Ties of family, believe it or not, supersede nationality here. Dishonorable, I agree.
But so will a lot of people from all over the world, unless you think that in every other country people don't try to weasel out from under the law.
Isn't that what a lawyer is for in half the cases back home? |
Well yeah, but people in other countries don't go around having press conferences and continue to lie after lie and make ass out of himself and his country. Maybe I'm having cultural misunderstanding.
Well, except for Bill. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cj1976 wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Once again a thread turns to Korean dudes are bad. |
Although it is unfair to make such a broad generalization, there does exist a certain type of misogyny almost unique to Korea because of their Confucianist ideals. Interesting article in the Korean Times:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2013/05/116_135501.html
"The chauvinistic, Confucian-steeped society lies behind the die-hard sexism here � when sexually assaulted, victims, including their families, scramble to cover up rather than to actively report it to the police for fear their career would be ruined.
Yoo Mee-sook, a professor at Seoul-based Sookmyung Womens University, noted that the overall atmosphere of society fosters such behavior and sex offenders try to take advantage of it. |
So how do you explain this?
| Quote: |
| According to the AMA, sexual assault continues to represent the most rapidly growing violent crime in America, claiming a victim every 45 seconds. Because many of these attacks occurring daily go unreported and unrecognized, sexual assault can be considered a �silent-violent epidemic� in the United States today. |
| Quote: |
| As is true of other violent crimes, it is difficult to get accurate estimates of the incidence of sexual assault. It is generally accepted that less than half of rapes are reported to authorities; some estimates are as low as 10%. Many factors contribute to underreporting, including embarrassment, fear of further injury, and fear of court procedures that, too often, scrutinize and judge the victim's behavior and history. |
There is a huge problem with under reporting of sexual assaults in all cultures and it has nothing to do specifically with Korean culture...the KT is hardly a bastion of journalistic integrity anyway.
Read more: Sexual Assault: The Silent, Violent Epidemic | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001537.html#ixzz2TJd9KFPT
Source: The American Medical Association (AMA). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Once again a thread turns to Korean dudes are bad. |
Although it is unfair to make such a broad generalization, there does exist a certain type of misogyny almost unique to Korea because of their Confucianist ideals. Interesting article in the Korean Times:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2013/05/116_135501.html
"The chauvinistic, Confucian-steeped society lies behind the die-hard sexism here � when sexually assaulted, victims, including their families, scramble to cover up rather than to actively report it to the police for fear their career would be ruined.
Yoo Mee-sook, a professor at Seoul-based Sookmyung Womens University, noted that the overall atmosphere of society fosters such behavior and sex offenders try to take advantage of it. |
So how do you explain this?
| Quote: |
| According to the AMA, sexual assault continues to represent the most rapidly growing violent crime in America, claiming a victim every 45 seconds. Because many of these attacks occurring daily go unreported and unrecognized, sexual assault can be considered a �silent-violent epidemic� in the United States today. |
| Quote: |
| As is true of other violent crimes, it is difficult to get accurate estimates of the incidence of sexual assault. It is generally accepted that less than half of rapes are reported to authorities; some estimates are as low as 10%. Many factors contribute to underreporting, including embarrassment, fear of further injury, and fear of court procedures that, too often, scrutinize and judge the victim's behavior and history. |
There is a huge problem with under reporting of sexual assaults in all cultures and it has nothing to do specifically with Korean culture...the KT is hardly a bastion of journalistic integrity anyway.
Read more: Sexual Assault: The Silent, Violent Epidemic | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001537.html#ixzz2TJd9KFPT
Source: The American Medical Association (AMA). |
Gender roles in Korea are largely shaped by their Confucianist ideals. Just type "Korean gender roles" into google and you can find lists of academic papers on the matter. It isn't attacking Korea to say that, so calm down.
Even the most ardent apologist/denier types can surely see that Korea is very much a man's world, and women are expected to perform secondary, submissive roles. Just look at the way girls address their boyfriends here. My wife's friends were surprised that she doesn't call me 'Oppa' and were even more surprised to find out that I told her not to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cj1976 wrote: |
Gender roles in Korea are largely shaped by their Confucianist ideals. Just type "Korean gender roles" into google and you can find lists of academic papers on the matter. It isn't attacking Korea to say that, so calm down.
Even the most ardent apologist/denier types can surely see that Korea is very much a man's world, and women are expected to perform secondary, submissive roles. Just look at the way girls address their boyfriends here. My wife's friends were surprised that she doesn't call me 'Oppa' and were even more surprised to find out that I told her not to. |
"secondary submissive roles"? Exactly who is the Korean president?
And I'm quite calm thanks for asking. I'm just wondering 2 things.
1. The under-reporting of rape here is due to a Confucianist culture/ideals?
2. I showed that there are many possible factors which are involved from a far more credible source than the KT (the AMA trumps the KT by far) so why did you completely ignore it?
Certainly there may be some cases which Confucianism plays a role. But to assign it the sole or even as the majority cause based on some daily rag is a bit much. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TUM, Korea hasn't had a real feminist movement yet, and even though the President is a woman, Korea is still very much a man's world. I wasn't talking about under-reporting of rape, so i chose to ignore it. My original point is that sexism is very much alive and well in Korea because of their Confucian values.
Also, perhaps you should take this up with Professor Yoo at Sookmyung, who "noted that the overall atmosphere of society fosters such behavior and sex offenders try to take advantage of it.".
It seems like you know better than her. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cj1976 wrote: |
TUM, Korea hasn't had a real feminist movement yet, and even though the President is a woman, Korea is still very much a man's world. I wasn't talking about under-reporting of rape, so i chose to ignore it. My original point is that sexism is very much alive and well in Korea because of their Confucian values.
Also, perhaps you should take this up with Professor Yoo at Sookmyung, who "noted that the overall atmosphere of society fosters such behavior and sex offenders try to take advantage of it.".
It seems like you know better than her. |
Appeal to authority is a fallacy. Just because a professor says something does that mean she or he is automatically right? If not why would you even say something like that?
Besides which I'm questioning the claim that Confucianism was the main cause in non-reporting of rapes.
Just because a newspaper or a professor says something doesn't make it so. Proof is required as in my statement which I supported with sourced info from the AMA. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
TUM, Korea hasn't had a real feminist movement yet, and even though the President is a woman, Korea is still very much a man's world. I wasn't talking about under-reporting of rape, so i chose to ignore it. My original point is that sexism is very much alive and well in Korea because of their Confucian values.
Also, perhaps you should take this up with Professor Yoo at Sookmyung, who "noted that the overall atmosphere of society fosters such behavior and sex offenders try to take advantage of it.".
It seems like you know better than her. |
Appeal to authority is a fallacy. Just because a professor says something does that mean she or he is automatically right? If not why would you even say something like that?
And I didn't deny anything that she said...I questioned the claim that Confucianism was the main cause in non-reporting of rapes.
Just because a newspaper or a professor says something doesn't make it so. Proof is required as in my statement which I supported with sourced info from the AMA. |
No offence, but I would rather take the word of a Korean academic on the subject of Korean culture than you. Honestly, why don't you engage her in a discussion and report back to us, if you are so sure of yourself? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| optik404 wrote: |
This just keeps getting better.
| Quote: |
| Although Korea can always refuse to extradite its own citizen to U.S. on a discretionary basis (as can the U.S. to Korea,) it is pretty hard to imagine Korea actually exercising that veto. |
|
I can imagine it. I'll predict it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| newb wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| newb wrote: |
| Quote: |
And a lot of them will throw themselves under the bus to save her face.
You don't get it, do you. It's the family's integrity that matters. If the family's name is threatened then someone will take the fall. |
I get it. He threw the entire country under the bus. Very honorable of him. |
Now that is certainly possible. Ties of family, believe it or not, supersede nationality here. Dishonorable, I agree.
But so will a lot of people from all over the world, unless you think that in every other country people don't try to weasel out from under the law.
Isn't that what a lawyer is for in half the cases back home? |
Well yeah, but people in other countries don't go around having press conferences and continue to lie after lie and make ass out of himself and his country. Maybe I'm having cultural misunderstanding.
Well, except for Bill. |
Or Berlusconi.
Or every French politician ever.
Or half the Republican Party.
Or Marion Berry and half the mayors of the Democratic Party.
| Quote: |
| Even the most ardent apologist/denier types can surely see that Korea is very much a man's world, and women are expected to perform secondary, submissive roles. |
Korea is very much a status conscious and capitalist world. Women are expected to go to good universities and become doctors and go to SKY just like their brothers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"Korea is very much a status conscious and capitalist world. Women are expected to go to good universities and become doctors and go to SKY just like their brothers."
Old habits die hard. They have the opportunities to do those things, but they still have the traditional expectations of homemaking and child-rearing to conform to. I'm no expert in feminism, but I imagine from a western feminist perspective, Korea is a complete nightmare. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| newb wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| newb wrote: |
| Quote: |
And a lot of them will throw themselves under the bus to save her face.
You don't get it, do you. It's the family's integrity that matters. If the family's name is threatened then someone will take the fall. |
I get it. He threw the entire country under the bus. Very honorable of him. |
Now that is certainly possible. Ties of family, believe it or not, supersede nationality here. Dishonorable, I agree.
But so will a lot of people from all over the world, unless you think that in every other country people don't try to weasel out from under the law.
Isn't that what a lawyer is for in half the cases back home? |
Well yeah, but people in other countries don't go around having press conferences and continue to lie after lie and make ass out of himself and his country. Maybe I'm having cultural misunderstanding.
Well, except for Bill. |
Or Berlusconi.
Or every French politician ever.
Or half the Republican Party.
Or Marion Berry and half the mayors of the Democratic Party.
| Quote: |
| Even the most ardent apologist/denier types can surely see that Korea is very much a man's world, and women are expected to perform secondary, submissive roles. |
Korea is very much a status conscious and capitalist world. Women are expected to go to good universities and become doctors and go to SKY just like their brothers. |
The big difference is they do it to their own citizens in their respective countries, but they don't go around and spread their culture in other countries to foreign nationals and DO A MIDNIGHT RUN. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| newb wrote: |
[
The big difference is they do it to their own citizens in their respective countries, but they don't go around and spread their culture in other countries to foreign nationals and DO A MIDNIGHT RUN. |
Ahem! Does the name Dominique Strauss-Kahn ring a bell? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
