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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Bars are unique in that you basically have a semi-circle of drunk people around the thing hollering their order rather than a queue. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
You don't tip for free drinks. That's just a loser in the end.
You tip big for two reasons- Faster service, because time is money, AND to be able to stay past last call. Stronger/Free drinks/darts are just a bonus. |
Alright, so if you're willing to forego these "perks," not tipping is just fine then, right? Because to be frank, to a fellow like me, drinking is not "serious business." I'm probably never going to go to any given bar more than a few times in my entire life, and I can do without the VIP treatment you're describing. Hell, if a bar is literally so busy that there's competition to place an order, I'm probably going to be the first one to suggest we just go someplace else.
As far as tips in restaurants go, Korea proves handily that one can get good service without tips, and that people can make a living in the restaurant industry without a tip-based system, so forget it. The price on the menu is what I'm going to pay, raise it if you want, or don't. I don't even especially want a waiter; I don't go to restaurants to live out some sort of fantasy wherein I have servants, I go because I want a nice meal. I'd happily do the McDonald's-style ordering system at a nice restaurant, telling the cook directly what I want, and coming back to get it myself when its ready (instead of it sitting under a heat lamp until the waiter gets around to bringing it to me), but it's generally not allowed. An American waiter is the restaurant equivalent of the guy who rushes out into traffic and cleans your windshield hoping for a hand out, except that instead of being a one-off thing, it's an institution that has infected every decent restaurant in the country; it's like that windshield-cleaning beggar sitting at every single stoplight on every road you care to go down, and expecting his handout every time.
Just pay the people living wages and raise the prices appropriately. And for God's sake, include tax in the price. Just put the real price on the menu, is that so hard? |
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
You don't tip for free drinks. That's just a loser in the end.
You tip big for two reasons- Faster service, because time is money, AND to be able to stay past last call. Stronger/Free drinks/darts are just a bonus. |
Alright, so if you're willing to forego these "perks," not tipping is just fine then, right? Because to be frank, to a fellow like me, drinking is not "serious business." I'm probably never going to go to any given bar more than a few times in my entire life, and I can do without the VIP treatment you're describing. Hell, if a bar is literally so busy that there's competition to place an order, I'm probably going to be the first one to suggest we just go someplace else.
As far as tips in restaurants go, Korea proves handily that one can get good service without tips, and that people can make a living in the restaurant industry without a tip-based system, so forget it. The price on the menu is what I'm going to pay, raise it if you want, or don't. I don't even especially want a waiter; I don't go to restaurants to live out some sort of fantasy wherein I have servants, I go because I want a nice meal. I'd happily do the McDonald's-style ordering system at a nice restaurant, telling the cook directly what I want, and coming back to get it myself when its ready (instead of it sitting under a heat lamp until the waiter gets around to bringing it to me), but it's generally not allowed. An American waiter is the restaurant equivalent of the guy who rushes out into traffic and cleans your windshield hoping for a hand out, except that instead of being a one-off thing, it's an institution that has infected every decent restaurant in the country; it's like that windshield-cleaning beggar sitting at every single stoplight on every road you care to go down, and expecting his handout every time.
Just pay the people living wages and raise the prices appropriately. And for God's sake, include tax in the price. Just put the real price on the menu, is that so hard? |
Think of the people who make minimum wage in the US. Are those the people you really want handling your "nice" meals, servicing you, recommending menu items, etc. Because that's what you'll get. No decent person would do a server's job for minimum wage. That hairy, fat, balding lady at the Waffle House will be serving you your $50 prime rib.
When I go out to eat at a reastaurant in the US, I go out for the experience, not just the food. It's very different than here in Korea. It sounds like you go out to a lot of chain restaurants like Chilis, Applebys,etc. Those are glorified fast-food joints. Forget that crap, go to a real restaurant, and you'll understand why you tip people. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^Applebees = Outback here. That's high end in Korea:) |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| War Eagle wrote: |
Think of the people who make minimum wage in the US. Are those the people you really want handling your "nice" meals, servicing you, recommending menu items, etc. |
I didn't say pay them minimum wage, I said pay them a living wage. No one should be earning the current US minimum wage.
| War Eagle wrote: |
| When I go out to eat at a reastaurant in the US, I go out for the experience, not just the food. |
Yes, I'm aware many people enjoy playing the "pretend I have servants" game. I can't empathize with it.
| War Eagle wrote: |
| It sounds like you go out to a lot of chain restaurants like Chilis, Applebys,etc. |
I almost never go to such restaurants (and for the most part they don't even exist up here in my small mountain town). The restaurants I frequent are all small, owner-operated specialty shops that give me exactly what I want (high quality food without wait staff constantly pestering me) without any need to bribe them via tips. I can walk in, mention what dish I want to the owner as I walk by to take my seat, and be presented with it a bit later. That's what I like.
Last edited by Fox on Wed May 08, 2013 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| War Eagle wrote: |
Think of the people who make minimum wage in the US. Are those the people you really want handling your "nice" meals, servicing you, recommending menu items, etc. |
I didn't say pay them minimum wage, I said pay them a living wage. No one should be earning the current US minimum wage. |
Doh, so you did 
| Fox wrote: |
| War Eagle wrote: |
| When I go out to eat at a reastaurant in the US, I go out for the experience, not just the food. |
Yes, I'm aware many people enjoy playing the "pretend I have servants" game. I can't empathize with it. |
I never feel that way. In fact, I have a lot of respect for good wait staff. Sure, I expect them to do their jobs, but I don't order them around; I ask nicely. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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To some up the bar perks of big tipping and being a regular-
Queue in front of the entrance? Walk right to the front and get in.
Getting tables cleared out for you.
Magically getting bumped to the head of the queue on the pool table
If you or someone in your party forgot their ID, you still get in and get served.
Wrong order food (i.e. someone made curry fries instead of Stilton fries) gets dropped off as a freebie
As mentioned, in a 50-50 bar fight, the establishment sides with you
Random free drinks
Pouring your own
Bumming smokes off of the bartender or waitress
Food and drinks made before anyone elses
Free Darts
Your channel on the TV
Drink an hour past last call
Uh, onsite extracurriculars.
Your music on the stereo
Money talks. Is it fair? Not to you, but I think it's fair to me. I'm paying a little extra for the extras I expect in return. People who tip standard and show standard concern get standard service.
The bar is not a place for rationality. It is a place for getting drunk and having a good time. |
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augustine
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Location: México
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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^  It's hard to imagine Steelrails being that slick. I bet you're the man at that ajosshi hof in gyeongsan (I have no idea where that is). |
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markness
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:39 am Post subject: |
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I didn't know people actually tipped in Asia!  Am I a stiff for avoiding it? I just thought it was out of bad taste to do that. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| augustine wrote: |
| ^ It's hard to imagine Steelrails being that slick. I bet you're the man at that ajosshi hof in gyeongsan (I have no idea where that is). |
I took my booze seriously and I look out for my friends. |
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Botasky
Joined: 12 May 2013
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| I wouldn't tip. |
I don't tip because society says I have to. Alright, I mean I'll tip if somebody really deserves a tip, if they really put forth the effort, I'll give 'em something extra, but I mean this tipping automatically is for the birds. |
Haha slips in a Resevoir Dogs quote under the radar. Nicely done Mr. Pink  |
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nero
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| markness wrote: |
| I didn't know people actually tipped in Asia! Am I a stiff for avoiding it? I just thought it was out of bad taste to do that. |
Most people don't tip outside of the states.
This is something some posters on here can't seem to get their heads around. In New Zealand (not a country known for its high wages) I was making $18 an hour as a waitress. Did I get the occasional tip? Sure. It was an unexpected bonus. But I did my job and did it well because that's what I was employed to do, not to suck up to customers for tips. |
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fezmond
Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| nero wrote: |
| markness wrote: |
| I didn't know people actually tipped in Asia! Am I a stiff for avoiding it? I just thought it was out of bad taste to do that. |
Most people don't tip outside of the states.
This is something some posters on here can't seem to get their heads around. In New Zealand (not a country known for its high wages) I was making $18 an hour as a waitress. Did I get the occasional tip? Sure. It was an unexpected bonus. But I did my job and did it well because that's what I was employed to do, not to suck up to customers for tips. |
Similar to the UK. A tip isn't really expected but is definitely appreciated. Most people will just leave the change or round it up a few quid at semi-decent restaurants. Or just save the money for the diddler and hope to win the jackpot.
As for tipping in bars/pubs, never unless it's Christmas and you buy the barstaff a drink. You get your choice of TV channel, music (if there is any) etc. just by being a regular.
Maybe there's a difference between pubs and bars  |
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