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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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 Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
Only thing is we crossed this hurdle years ago.
Foreign fathers ARE listed on both birth certificates and family registry now. The old Hojuk system changed years ago.
Like I said, changing and changing fast. Try to keep up. There are still many things that need to be done but it helps if you're not still complaining about issues that have already been rectified.
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No, I specifically asked who is listed as the HEAD of your family on the Hojuk?
It helps if you read the post. |
Take your own advice. I was responding not to you, but to the poster I quoted.
As stated before, the Hojuk system has been replaced years ago. As far as head of household on the family registry (가족관계증명서), I honestly don't know what the current situation is. Do you?
More importantly, what detriment is caused by a foreign spouse not being able to be head of household?
If there is then by all means I agree it too should be changed as have so many other things that have changed in the recent past. I'm also confident based on the record and pace of those changes that if it is a change that is needed it will happen.
That was the point I was in fact making to you, if you had read the post I actually addressed to you.
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
As far as head of household on the family registry (가족관계증명서), I honestly don't know what the current situation is. Do you?
More importantly, what detriment is caused by a foreign spouse not being able to be head of household?
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Let's see... what if a Korean man could be listed as the head of a household, but a foreign man could not? If you can't figure that one out, in terms of how it relates to racial discrimination and the subjects discussed in this thread, then I can't help you.
Why don't you do us all a favor and look up who is the head of your family registry, T-J? Please use your Korean ability to find out. I'd be curious to hear what you learn. Honestly, given your comments, I am quite surprised that you don't know the answer to this.
Unless there has been some drastic change, which would certainly have made for numerous news articles, as well as posts on all of the popular foreign websites...
the document listing the head of the household will be the same person who is listed as the controlling owner of their home, businesses like their family-owned hagwon, etc..
Of course, the home and hagwon thing could differ, but I guess that depends on who fronts the money for these things in the first place. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Would it be racial discrimination is a Kyopo was listed under his wife's registry?
I mean, I know there are racial issues out there, but this one seems to be more about citizenship.
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
the document listing the head of the household will be the same person who is listed as the controlling owner of their home, businesses like their family-owned hagwon, etc..
Of course, the home and hagwon thing could differ, but I guess that depends on who fronts the money for these things in the first place. |
Nope - this is simply who is listed on the ownership/gov docs related to these entities. I've been both a homeowner AND business owner here - nothing to do with the family registrar. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Would it be racial discrimination is a Kyopo was listed under his wife's registry?
I mean, I know there are racial issues out there, but this one seems to be more about citizenship.
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
the document listing the head of the household will be the same person who is listed as the controlling owner of their home, businesses like their family-owned hagwon, etc..
Of course, the home and hagwon thing could differ, but I guess that depends on who fronts the money for these things in the first place. |
Nope - this is simply who is listed on the ownership/gov docs related to these entities. I've been both a homeowner AND business owner here - nothing to do with the family registrar. |
That is not out-of-line with what I posted. My point was that it is not uncommon for the name of the owner of a business or home to be the same. It comes down to money for the last two. Read the last sentence of what I posted.
My point was that, in most cases, foreigners I have met here seem to own things like hagwons and nicer homes due to Korean family money.
I do believe the two of you might be in different situations... mainly because you came here and arrived early enough that buying homes/schools was a heck of a lot cheaper than now. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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No. That is not a factor. Money is a factor... as is... taxes! You'd be surprised to find out how many companies/properties are in various family members names due to tax issues.
So I'm confused as to what your actual point is? Am I listed as my child's father? Yes. Am I listed as the head of the household - most likely not. I'm not a citizen. If I was, I would/could be listed as such.
Can I own a company? Yes.
Can I own property? Yes.
Have I done both? Yes.
Does my wife come from money? No. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| BTW, Cap'n, I seem to remember you once started thread somehow related to the family registry. Do you know who is listed as the head of the family on yours? Can it be a foreigner? Has this changed? |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Above post was posted just after yours... Didn't see your new one.
The original point is about discrimination, how far this country has come, and how far it has to go.
The family registry point illustrates that we, as foreigners, cannot even be considered as the head of our own household... Unless some law has changed that nobody here seems to know about. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Why don't you do us all a favor and look up who is the head of your family registry, T-J? Please use your Korean ability to find out. I'd be curious to hear what you learn. Honestly, given your comments, I am quite surprised that you don't know the answer to this.
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Who said I don't know who's listed as head of household on our registry?
I said that given all the recent changes, I don't if it is in fact still not possible.
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Let's see... what if a Korean man could be listed as the head of a household, but a foreign man could not? If you can't figure that one out, in terms of how it relates to racial discrimination and the subjects discussed in this thread, then I can't help you.
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Which is why I asked a simple question that you did not answer.
What difficulties can be encountered by not having yourself listed as head of household. I ask because I haven't encountered any.
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the document listing the head of the household will be the same person who is listed as the controlling owner of their home, businesses like their family-owned hagwon, etc..
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Not necessarily.
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Of course, the home and hagwon thing could differ, but I guess that depends on who fronts the money for these things in the first place.
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Exactly.
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Unless there has been some drastic change, which would certainly have made for numerous news articles, as well as posts on all of the popular foreign websites...
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You mean like the recent change to Korean law regarding dual citizenship? Thank you, I forgot to list that.
Naturalized foreigners can be listed as head of household regardless of ethnicity.
The process for naturalization is shorter in terms of time with western countries (U.S., U.K., Canada). In terms of paperwork and money necessary, Korea wins hands down. Korea has a simple application versus mountains of paperwork. The fee for applying is $100 versus thousands.
So, whether or not there remains a barrier to be listed as head of household based on nationality there is no barrier based on ethnicity or race if you prefer.
To summarize; discrimination still exists, changes that eliminate discrimination are happening and happening quickly. Korea is light years ahead of where it was twenty years ago and is moving in a positive direction. There is still work to be done in many areas but I'm optimistic and excited for the future. I plan on working in a positive manner to be a part of that rather than moan about sour grapes.
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, so now you know.
T-J, you're really good at twisting words and saving face.
That part of Korea, you've got down pat.
As far as naturalization and it being easier... I've been watching a thread elsewhere which seems to come to some very interesting conclusions about it. That's not on here, though. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
Only thing is we crossed this hurdle years ago.
Foreign fathers ARE listed on both birth certificates and family registry now. The old Hojuk system changed years ago.
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What birth certificate are you looking at? What's the name of the document? I am listed on the hospital birth certificate, but not on the government birth certificate, and my son was born in 2011. The dong-office told me foreigners can't be listed, and they were apologetic.
I am on the family registry of my wife. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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With regards to the "Head of Household", this is a document which tracks citizens of Korea. I don't think there is a western equivalent. The government keeps data on it's citizens, so if you aren't a citizen, they aren't tracking you - hence you don't have a document in your name. I don't see that as a racist policy.
And being named "head of household" won't give you standing against your wife:)
(It's pretty amazing the data the government tracks about it's citizens here. They have to report changes of address, not just us foreigners. The health ministry knows if you own or rent your house, businesses in your name, car ownership.)
Last edited by Who's Your Daddy? on Mon May 20, 2013 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
With regards to the "Head of Household", this is a document which tracks citizens of Korea. I don't think there is a western equivalent. The government keeps data on it's citizens, so if you aren't a citizen, they aren't tracking you - hence you don't have a document in your name. I don't see that as a racist policy.
And being named "head of household" won't give you standing against your wife:)
(It's pretty amazing the data the government tracks about it's citizens here. They have to report changes of address, not just us foreigners. The health ministry knows if you own or rent your house, businesses in your name, car ownership) |
Yeah, that's why I sort of view that particular issue as... a non-issue. Like I said, if it was about race, then Kyopo would be different than any other foreigner. As far as I know, and as you've stated, it's simply a matter of Korean vs foreigner. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
Only thing is we crossed this hurdle years ago.
Foreign fathers ARE listed on both birth certificates and family registry now. The old Hojuk system changed years ago.
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What birth certificate are you looking at? What's the name of the document? I am listed on the hospital birth certificate, but not on the government birth certificate, and my son was born in 2011. The dong-office told me foreigners can't be listed, and they were apologetic.
I am on the family registry of my wife. |
There are three documents that are referred to in these conversations:
1. Birth Certificate (출생 증명서) this is not used in Korea the same as we are familiar with in our home countries. We agree a foreign father can be listed on this.
The Hojuk system was revamped some years ago and replaced with the following.
2. Family Register (가족관계증명서). I think this is what you were referring to as the "government birth certificate". Foreigners in general and specifically fathers had difficulty being added to this. It is possible.
3. Citizen Register (주민등록표) this is for Korean citizens only. It is used to register address of residence. As a foreign resident your residence is maintained at immigration. If you naturalize then you would be added to this form as well.
**edit** an application can be made to include a foreign resident on a copy of this as well.
Hope this clears up some of the confusion.
Last edited by T-J on Mon May 20, 2013 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
Ah, so now you know.
T-J, you're really good at twisting words and saving face.
That part of Korea, you've got down pat.
As far as naturalization and it being easier... I've been watching a thread elsewhere which seems to come to some very interesting conclusions about it. That's not on here, though. |
You still haven't answered.
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Swampie, TJ has shown us facts and actual concrete elements of change. You have just used words and your opinion.
From my count he answered your question quite clearly and has done so at least twice. The fact you just refuse to accept any answer that does not jive with your view of things is the issue here.
By the way, I checked our family docs and my name was on the documents (birth cert for my son), I was on the family register even if it took a bit of work (gov workers did not know the procedures at the time but nevertheless did it once it was checked and explained). I was never a citizen, just a permanent resident so the citizen register was none of my concern.
I too owned a business and a house (apt) in Korea.
All in all, getting all this done was not that complicated and got easier as time went by. |
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