Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Smithington]

I'm sometimes absolutely amazed at how ill-mannered my students can be. Snatching things out of my hands, trying to take my glasses off of my face, refusing to stop talking, messing about with the settings on my cell phone, getting out of their seats repeatedly, leaving the classroom without permission, throwing things, talking over me, refusing to do anything I ask them to, going through my coat pockets,....and generally being ill-mannered little dicks.

Today I threw one kid out of my class for being intolerably disruptive. Once in the hallway he starts screaming at me at the top of his lungs for having the audacity to remove him from the class.

Sigh!

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, I guess. Another generation of obnoxious little ajoshies and ajummas in the making.

[Lucas]

[Smithington]

Elementary school. Sometimes they can horrid little creatures.

[Lucas]

I think you need to stop and think about where you are going wrong.

Yes elem kids can be 'hyper' ect but you need to think of ways to focus that energy/have activities that de-energize them.

Example - if you have a class right after lunch (and the boys have been running around/sweaty/hyper) is a good idea to do a competitive game with the class.

Or at least have an initial 5 minute 'calm' activity?

For a class like that, I go to the water fountain - fill it up and get some cups.

If they come in and are quiet they get a glass of ice cold water - if not they don't.

They obs see you as a 'toy' and not their teacher, which is a problem.


As they enter the classroom where are you? I'm ALWAYS stood at the door for my 'edgy' classes - if they're shouting/running ect down the corridor - they don't even get into my classroom!

Also if they have a work sheet - I place it 'face down' on the table before they arrive - of course they will turn it over the first time - BUT even my worst class learnt not to do it after the third class or incur the wrath of LUCAS!

They are like puppies - they need training (and they want it for the most part) Kids need and want boundaries.......

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Now the Daves answer - Gosh darrrrrm (bad Korean teachers) - parents teach them no respect blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Cacille]

Wow you need some better classroom management and quickly!
My students, on the whole, do not treat me badly. In fact, I can only name 2 or 3, out of 500, that give me respect issues. Last year was worse, my first year teaching so i didn't know better. This year, I set some big hard rules. 9 of them (although #5 isn't really a rule, just more of an expectation that they speak in English in my class as much as possible). And #9 is just a note that at any time, they are allowed to say, raising their hand "I don't understand" and that no one should EVER giggle or tease the student for this.
1. You listen when I speak and I'll listen when you speak.
2. You will respect me and I will respect you.
3. Treat your books, classroom things, and other students with respect.
4. Do not take or use things without permission. (I specify the things they should not take or use, like whiteboard markers or my point stick)
5. This classroom is the USA. Speak English.
6. Do not tease or bully others. Ever.
7. Do not use bad words in any language.
8. Forgetting at the moment, sorry!
9. Listen carefully. If you don't understand, raise your hand. Say "I don't understand, teacher".

Now, I have middle schoolers so some of these rules may not apply (like the English speaking "rule") so feel free to take this list and create your own. Post the rules on the wall if you have your own class, if not, perhaps create a little board to take around with you to keep those rules in front of the kid's eyes.
Punishment and Reward system: Last year i did punishment only. It did not work. This year, I do a mix of both, light on punishment, heavy on reward. I have a large board and each class has a section. I have cut out, velcro letters that go on their section that spell out a word or two. Every week, they can earn a letter for overall good behavior. I have my classes once a week, so they must earn a movie by spelling out "movie day". So they can earn a movie roughly every two months.
Note: You must keep DETAILED track of every classes letters cause the kids like to try to move the letters around.
So, the kids may earn a letter by NOT losing 6 points. If they lose 6 points, they lose the letter for the week.
When a student, or multiple students misbehaves by breaking a rule, the points get knocked off the board. If there is only one offending student, that student must then stand in the corner for 5 minutes.

It has worked spectacularly well compared to last year. Feel free to use any of my plan for you.

[Threequalseven]

Do you teach at a hagwon or public school?

[Waygeek]

[Threequalseven]

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the OP works at a hagwon. If so, the first thing you need to do is ignore everything these public schoolers are telling you. It's easy to chalk it all up to being a good teacher, but c'mon... If you're in a classroom where kids need to pay attention so they don't fail school, AND you get a Korean co-teacher to translate everything you don't know how to say (like the laundry list Cacille wrote), AND you get the same students every day as opposed to once or twice a week, you have no room to talk. You've got it more made than you realize. When you get a class of 6-8 students who have no real consequences for their actions, and they've just dealt with school and other academies all day, you'd be lucky to get the respect of a Sunday school teacher. Unless your "calm activity" starts with R and ends with amen Party, then your students have no reason to listen to a single word that comes out of your mouth.

Of course, there are some preventative measures you can take. I've definitely turned a few classes around. But I'll say with 100% confidence that students' respect for their teachers has more to do with the situation they're in and not "good classroom management". I'm just frustrated with people on their high horse who think that every positive thing that happens is solely a result of their own awesomeness, and every negative thing that happens to someone else is a result of their inadequacy. Not every language instructor here works for a public school.

That said, if the OP is a public schooler, then I'm a buffoon. But based on what he said, what my Korean co-teachers say, and what every other hagwon worker I've talked to has said, I'm willing to wager that he's not.

[Mix1]

Generally speaking, the kids here get very little discipline or rules or training in basic manners. The sky's the limit for them.

Yell as loud as you want in a hallway? Why not, they aren't taught inside/outside voices.

Cough in your face? Why not, they aren't taught to cover their mouths when they sneeze or cough.

Slam the door as hard as possible? Why not, Mom and Dad never told them not to.

As far as rudeness, you'll get it worse as a foreigner. Simply don't accept extreme rudeness from them. They don't feel they have to respect anyone non-Korean and they don't know where you fit into their hierarchy.

Grow a backbone and get strict. They will fall in line if you show some backbone. Don't be a jerk about it, but be strict... they will like and respect you MORE. Stop smiling at them for a few weeks and get them to fear you a bit. It will work wonders.

If you want them to follow rules, YOU have to make them clear and enforce them. Don't expect the Korean coworkers to do much for you on this. You have to control them, it's part of your job.

[nahanni]

I completely agree with "threequalseven".

Everyone who has made their suggestions should state whether they work for a public school or hagwon. They are two completely different worlds and those who have never worked the private sector should be ignored due to a polite ignorance.

If the OP works public, then I'm sorry, find a new means of earning cash

[nukeday]

And this is why i stopped teaching kids. I guess i was too much of a beta male, lol.

I think with the phazing out of corporal punishment, the kids lost all discipline. There are no real consequences for bad behavior, even in the public schools. Can't keep them in detention..they'll miss hagwon. And i think for a suspension to occur, someone would have to end up in a hospital.

In fact, my korean co-teachers, even the best of them, still had to occassionally resort to a pinched cheek here, or in one case a rear donkey kick. Of course they cried to their moms and received an apology. But the bad behavior stopped temporarily. Unfortunately, until some viable disciplinary system is implemented, violence is all they understand. I stay out of it. To disagree with another poster, i think the disciplinary issues are best left to the korean teachers. I mean, really, when is being scolded in a foreign language not comical?

[Times30]

Classroom discipline is a subtle art and it's hard to explain. But your aura and image you put forth really determines how they will respond to you.

Wearing clean PROFESSIONAL cloths (I emphasize this since it impacts how people perceive you), running the class in a systematic organized way, and having all your ducks in a row is really all you need. And yes this does apply to elementary school students.

I've taught elementary students for a while, some even bordering on Kindergarten and they can definitely can start out unruly. But that's because they don't know the rules or what is appropriate, and some teacher before them set a precedent.

As a foreign teacher, they will expect the same patterns as their previous foreign teacher. So if that teacher let them play with their phone, have dance time, and gave them candy, you inherited a whole lot of predjudice. It's not the kid's fault either, it's the teachers. First step is to let them know that's not how you will do things.

Next you have to establish you are not a friend, a kind warm person, or a giver. That doesn't mean hurt or damage them. But let them know you are serious and you aren't there to suck up to them. Many teachers try to "bribe" their students with promises and that ultimately leads to a huge loss of respect. Despite whatever concept people have of what a teacher should be the soft pillowy type does not work.

Lay down the law, do it straight, and be fair. LISTEN to your students but that doesn't mean give into all their demands. If my student has a concern, I will always listen and respond and treat them like an adult. But if they ask something unreasonable, I give them a look as if "That is the craziest thing I've heard". And they will realize that what they are doing is wrong.

It's about your Aura. You need to appear as an Authority figure and serious. Never ever joke about anything. I don't care what other people say, I've read a lot of articles about "bonding" with students with jokes. Doesn't work all the time and it can damage your reputation. Avoid all jokes. Don't joke about student, yourself, or the material. Once you start joking, you set the tone so it's ok to joke. And you remove any seriousness.

[Botasky]

Does each Hagwon have a policy for disciplining students? Guidelines for teachers or is it up to you?

The teacher I most respected as a teenager had a simple approach. On the first day he told us his 'columns rule'. If we misbehaved he'd hold up two fingers. This meant we had to write out 2 columns if the index of our science textbook - a truly boring thing to do, but not massively time consuming. If we keep going he'd hold up 4 fingers, 6, and so on. He explained that he would always try his best not to write notes in our journal that could get us in trouble at home or with our year head and that only in extreme cases would he send us to the vice principle. In 5 years that happened once. He never raised his voice or lost his cool. Great teacher and we all respected him. All he had to do was stop talking, look at the student, smile and hold up two fingers.

[Dodge7]

I hate teaching 7 and 8 year old. I always see a huge improvement in respect and noise volume in the 9-11 year olds.
Bad kids will always be bad no matter what you try with them. My K-co teacher can't even control them. That should shut these "it's the teacher's fault" people up. Some kids are just BAD.

[Lucas]