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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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 Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| July is the most difficult hiring time as people are either doing camps for 1 million a week or having a summer holiday. This will mean a lot of E2s will be pressured not to leave. If they said September 1st that would make sense. Unless only the desperate apply in July so they can screw them. |
Actually, this might be what the recruiter meant. They were probably saying they have a summer position without airfare, not a 1 year deal. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Return Airfare no longer being paid |
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Return Airfare no longer being paid
| jphill9990 wrote: |
| I head this will be the case for anyone starting at a hagwon after July 1st....is that true? Has anyone received job offers without airfare included? |
This is a proposed change that hogwan associations are promoting to their members. It has been discussed among the hogwan associations, the large chain schools, some public school reps and some of the smaller schools. Now they are attempting to implement this as a new standard contranct term in Korea.
This topic has been discussed before on Dave's just two weeks ago, here:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=226948&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90
Although BigFella pretends to be surprised on this thread:
| big_fella1 wrote: |
Thanks, that's the funniest thing I've read for a while.
July is the most difficult hiring time as people are either doing camps for 1 million a week or having a summer holiday. This will mean a lot of E2s will be pressured not to leave. If they said September 1st that would make sense. Unless only the desperate apply in July so they can screw them.. |
He posted twice on this topic on the previous thread just two weeks ago:
| big_fella1 wrote: |
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:28 am
| wanderkind wrote: |
A recruiter recently told me that after July 1st, schools in Korea (E-2 employers, is how I construed that slightly vague term) will no longer be covering return airfare as a standard of compensation for 1 year contracts of employment.
Can anyone comment on this? True, false, somewhere in between?
I'm sorry if this has been hashed and rehashed elsewhere, but as usual, I've been unsuccessful at employing the eslcafe search function in this. |
That's funny because I heard from a wonjangnim that hagwons will stop using recruiters after July 1st. Something about google translate allowing them to place their own ad on Daves and save 1.2 million won.
Airfares will continue to be provided. |
As discussed by rational posters who actually know what's happening in Korea, this is an attempt to change the standard contract benefits offered to E2 teachers coming to Korea. The thinking is that since ESL teaching jobs in most other countries don't pay airfare at all, Korean employers can cut out the return airfare from the standard contract terms.
We still don't know which schools will sign on to this, but it is clearly happening.
Whether or not it will work depends on new teachers, such as the OP. Will they accept these contracts without return airfare. Will some potential teachers turn down these offers only to have the jobs filled by others, thereby losing out on their chance for an ESL job in Korea. Or will enough potential new teachers turn down the no-return-air contracts that employers find it difficult to fill their positions, so that employers give up on this change.
This has nothing to do with recruiters and will not benefit them in any way, although they are the ones who have to deliver, explain and justify this change to new teachers.
Those of us already teaching here will not make this decision. This doesn't change the terms of the E2 contracts we have now.
It's the new E2 teachers and the schools that will establish or reject this new standard. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Return Airfare no longer being paid |
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| ontheway wrote: |
Although BigFella pretends to be surprised on this thread:
| big_fella1 wrote: |
Thanks, that's the funniest thing I've read for a while.
July is the most difficult hiring time as people are either doing camps for 1 million a week or having a summer holiday. This will mean a lot of E2s will be pressured not to leave. If they said September 1st that would make sense. Unless only the desperate apply in July so they can screw them.. |
He posted twice on this topic on the previous thread just two weeks ago:
| big_fella1 wrote: |
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:28 am
| wanderkind wrote: |
A recruiter recently told me that after July 1st, schools in Korea (E-2 employers, is how I construed that slightly vague term) will no longer be covering return airfare as a standard of compensation for 1 year contracts of employment.
Can anyone comment on this? True, false, somewhere in between?
I'm sorry if this has been hashed and rehashed elsewhere, but as usual, I've been unsuccessful at employing the eslcafe search function in this. |
That's funny because I heard from a wonjangnim that hagwons will stop using recruiters after July 1st. Something about google translate allowing them to place their own ad on Daves and save 1.2 million won.
Airfares will continue to be provided. |
It's the new E2 teachers and the schools that will establish or reject this new standard. |
Good morning ontheway it's 8.10 am here in Korea, don't you ever sleep?  I've missed you too. Sorry been busy taking up the cause of international residents and banking with the government regulator.
I don't believe 4 = 1 
The only thing that's surprising is the hagwons seem to be openly admitting to collusion. Whilst illegal in Korea as you've pointed out its enforcement that matters.
Anyway take care ontheway and have a great weekend.
Big_fella1 |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I had originally not expected the downturn to last this long. But, there will eventually be some type of recovery. Add to that, Japan hiring more public school teachers and Chinese hogwans offering more money every year. Either way, Korea will be screwed if they keep this nonsense up. Hogwans are already saving money by paying what they paid 10 years ago. |
Nope the glory days are gone by and large. Everyone will eventually have to accept worse standards not just here but across the world.
And as long as people keep living on credit here and back home...don't expect any massive turnaround unless it's for the worse. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| don't expect any massive turnaround unless it's for the worse |
Hmm, know something we don't?  |
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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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If this is true - Korea has now moved one closer to the teaching market in Japan. It would also confirm my suspicions that the teaching market here will be on a major decline for around 10 years or so (as has been the case with Japan for the past ten years - though Japan is likely on the path to reversal starting this year).
I think the Korea/Japan comparison with a 10 year gap is most interesting.
The good thing is, Korean Won is likely to stay pretty strong for a long while - as has been the case with Japanese Yen up until now (much like the teaching market in Japan, Japanese Yen is on the reversal course).
Now, for an even stronger resemblance to Japan, Korea has to change the work visa stipulations - where teachers would no longer be limited to teaching at one school. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I imagine new applicants won't look to the future of their job ending and having to pay for that plane ticket back. They will think, "Well, I'll have a lot of money by then and won't have to worry about it." Especially if they are fresh out of college. It's bad news for any of us that have been here a long time. If we change jobs or renew, we will have to accept a no return flight home. The school won't think in terms of competition, they will think, "If this school is doing it then why shouldn't I do it?" |
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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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It's interesting that most schools in China do not offer airfare to China - only from China^^
Anyways, once Korea drops the airfare perk, jobs in China will nearly be on par with those in Korea (considering that I think the wages will continue go up in China) |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought that the return airfare was given because the school is responsible for the E2 visa. Basically, it is their responsibility to make sure you leave when it expires. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| maximmm wrote: |
It's interesting that most schools in China do not offer airfare to China - only from China^^
Anyways, once Korea drops the airfare perk, jobs in China will nearly be on par with those in Korea (considering that I think the wages will continue go up in China) |
Actaully there are many Chinese ads offereing either re-imbursement or even pre pay in some rare cases. I've seen some not offereing it. There is an allowance; though in some cases, the allowance may not cover the full amount. This is still way better than what is being proposed here.
As for the public school, EPIK usually introduces changes beginning in it's September contracts. So, if I want to know what changes to look forward to several months in advance (as I renew each year during the middle of spring), I always ask the September folks what is new in their contracts. |
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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| maximmm wrote: |
It's interesting that most schools in China do not offer airfare to China - only from China^^
Anyways, once Korea drops the airfare perk, jobs in China will nearly be on par with those in Korea (considering that I think the wages will continue go up in China) |
Actaully there are many Chinese ads offereing either re-imbursement or even pre pay in some rare cases. I've seen some not offereing it. There is an allowance; though in some cases, the allowance may not cover the full amount. This is still way better than what is being proposed here.
As for the public school, EPIK usually introduces changes beginning in it's September contracts. So, if I want to know what changes to look forward to several months in advance (as I renew each year during the middle of spring), I always ask the September folks what is new in their contracts. |
I completely disagree that it's better than what's being offered here. Here we get full reimbursement - and in public schools, we often get 2.6 million won for a two way ticket.
In China, in most cases they reimburse anywhere from 6,000 to 10,000 RMB (6K RMB being a lot more common than 10K). That is substantially less than 2.6 mill W. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| maximmm wrote: |
If this is true - Korea has now moved one closer to the teaching market in Japan. It would also confirm my suspicions that the teaching market here will be on a major decline for around 10 years or so (as has been the case with Japan for the past ten years - though Japan is likely on the path to reversal starting this year).
I think the Korea/Japan comparison with a 10 year gap is most interesting.
The good thing is, Korean Won is likely to stay pretty strong for a long while - as has been the case with Japanese Yen up until now (much like the teaching market in Japan, Japanese Yen is on the reversal course).
Now, for an even stronger resemblance to Japan, Korea has to change the work visa stipulations - where teachers would no longer be limited to teaching at one school. |
Teachers in Korea are NOT limited to teaching at just one school. They can easily get permission to teach at a second location on their current visa.
I assume you meant visa portability. In Japan the teaching visa seems to be issued for a set period (it still requires a sponsor to be valid) and job transfer is more streamlined than Korea. This may happen in Korea over time. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Teachers in Korea are NOT limited to teaching at just one school. They can easily get permission to teach at a second location on their current visa. |
Easily? Nonsense.
The primary boss has to give permission, far from a given, & many contracts expressly forbid second jobs. With public schools, its illegal unless the second position is also govt-run, & again only with your school's permission. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Teachers in Korea are NOT limited to teaching at just one school. They can easily get permission to teach at a second location on their current visa. |
Easily? Nonsense.
The primary boss has to give permission, far from a given, & many contracts expressly forbid second jobs. With public schools, its illegal unless the second position is also govt-run, & again only with your school's permission. |
That process has been simplified over the years. I remember a thread about it here where ttom outlined the process.
If the contract forbids working at a second job that is different and a contract is NOT a work visa, those are two different things.
School's permission makes sense as they are your primary sponsor and thus need to know if that second job will impact your performance and productivity.
Could be wrong however. |
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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
That process has been simplified over the years. I remember a thread about it here where ttom outlined the process.
If the contract forbids working at a second job that is different and a contract is NOT a work visa, those are two different things.
School's permission makes sense as they are your primary sponsor and thus need to know if that second job will impact your performance and productivity.
Could be wrong however. |
To work outside of your school, you need a permission from your school AND a secondary place of employment stamp in your passport (this requires a visit to the immigration office with all of the appropriate paperwork). |
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