|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Adam Carolla
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
|
 Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:22 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| T-J wrote: |
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| "What is an American?" for example. |
Depends who you ask this to. There are many, particularly older Americans, that will give you a pretty 'old-fashioned' answer when asked in private. But in public is usually the least offending answer. Just like when you ask Europeans what they really think of immigration into their countries, dig a little deeper and you'll get the real answer. |
This type of post makes me vomit in my mouth. Yes, there is racism in Europe and the U.S. But even the most virulent racists (ok, maybe there are one or two, but don't pretend they are the majority) in the U.S. don't question an American's citizenship based on skin color. |
Have you been to the American SW?
|
T-J is playing a little game called "Stupid or Liar." What he's implying is that people in the U.S. will question whether or not brown skinned American citizens are actually citizens. That s actually not what happens. Here's a fact: there are a large number of illegal aliens in the SW. T-J has engaged in a lot of non-thinking over this issue. What actually happens is not that people distrusts a person with a valid U.S. I.D. What happens is that people don't believe a person is an American who has *no* I.D.
We can sum this up thus: Let's ask 1,000 white Americans living in the SW these questions....
Me: This (hispanic) guy has a U.S. I.D. Do you think he's an American?
My guess: the overwhelming response is yes, he's an American.
T-J would like to conflate the issue by having 1,000 Americans driving by a work site and asking them, "Do you think those clearly undocumented illegal immigrants are Americans?" And when the answer "No" he pats himself on the back and considers the argument won. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| "What is an American?" for example. |
Depends who you ask this to. There are many, particularly older Americans, that will give you a pretty 'old-fashioned' answer when asked in private. But in public is usually the least offending answer. Just like when you ask Europeans what they really think of immigration into their countries, dig a little deeper and you'll get the real answer. |
This type of post makes me vomit in my mouth. Yes, there is racism in Europe and the U.S. But even the most virulent racists (ok, maybe there are one or two, but don't pretend they are the majority) in the U.S. don't question an American's citizenship based on skin color. |
Have you been to the American SW?
|
T-J is playing a little game called "Stupid or Liar." What he's implying is that people in the U.S. will question whether or not brown skinned American citizens are actually citizens. That s actually not what happens. Here's a fact: there are a large number of illegal aliens in the SW. T-J has engaged in a lot of non-thinking over this issue. What actually happens is not that people distrusts a person with a valid U.S. I.D. What happens is that people don't believe a person is an American who has *no* I.D.
We can sum this up thus: Let's ask 1,000 white Americans living in the SW these questions....
Me: This (hispanic) guy has a U.S. I.D. Do you think he's an American?
My guess: the overwhelming response is yes, he's an American.
T-J would like to conflate the issue by having 1,000 Americans driving by a work site and asking them, "Do you think those clearly undocumented illegal immigrants are Americans?" And when the answer "No" he pats himself on the back and considers the argument won. |
Well, I think he might be referring to "American" the concept, rather than "American" the formal citizen.
Take for example the volleyball game where the Asian-American students were greeted with chants of "USA USA USA", clearly they didn't register as Americans to that fraternity and their fans, even though some of them might agreed that while legally, they were United States citizens, clearly though, they weren't Americans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam Carolla
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cherry picked example is cherry picked example.
Asian-Americans as a group are *commonly* accepted as Americans. Not only that, they are held up as an *ideal* of what students should aspire to be. Are you really sure you want to use Asian-Americans as an example to illustrate your point? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
Cherry picked example is cherry picked example.
Asian-Americans as a group are *commonly* accepted as Americans. Not only that, they are held up as an *ideal* of what students should aspire to be. Are you really sure you want to use Asian-Americans as an example to illustrate your point? |
No, they aren't. Sorry.
"What's your name? No, your real name"
"Where are you from? No, where are you really from?"
Look at all the missteps that people did when Jeremy Lin had his breakout with the Knicks. Despite him being an Asian-American kid with minimal Chinese skills, many of the puns, mockups, and posters showed him as Chinese.
I think if you were to ask Asian-Americans their opinion, you might get a different answer.
Now does that mean they're being run out of town and greeted by Fu Manchu crap everywhere? Of course not, but it doesn't mean there isn't a SIGNIFICANT subconscious "not American" thing that goes down.
Take for example that recent viral video where the kid (rightly) goes off on his teacher for her lackadaisical methods. Notable though, is that he says "It's the future of my country" not "our country". When the tempers flare, she is regarded as an outsider.
By and large, Asian-Americans have it well. I don't go for the griping and hating that many of them go on about when it comes to life in America. A lot of it mirrors the griping that some NETs here go into.
But I do think that what people perceive as "American" rather than "United States Citizen" is rather different. The good thing about Americans is that even if they just think you are a "United States Citizen" rather than an "American", they will still do a lot for you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam Carolla
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
Cherry picked example is cherry picked example.
Asian-Americans as a group are *commonly* accepted as Americans. Not only that, they are held up as an *ideal* of what students should aspire to be. Are you really sure you want to use Asian-Americans as an example to illustrate your point? |
No, they aren't. Sorry.
|
Look, I don't have time to deal with your crap. America handles different races better than any other country in the world. End of story. If you disagree, flat out, you're wrong. If you do agree, then stop arguing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
Cherry picked example is cherry picked example.
Asian-Americans as a group are *commonly* accepted as Americans. Not only that, they are held up as an *ideal* of what students should aspire to be. Are you really sure you want to use Asian-Americans as an example to illustrate your point? |
No, they aren't. Sorry.
|
Look, I don't have time to deal with your crap. America handles different races better than any other country in the world. End of story. If you disagree, flat out, you're wrong. If you do agree, then stop arguing. |
Now that is an argument worthy of a college educated adult.
Hear that Canadians, Brits, Swedes, Brazilians, Aussies, Irish, Saudis, etc.? America does it better than any other country. Period. And if you disagree with Adam Carolla, you are wrong because you disagree with Adam Carolla. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
|
| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
Look, I don't have time to deal with your crap. America handles different races better than any other country in the world. End of story. If you disagree, flat out, you're wrong. If you do agree, then stop arguing. |
Now that is an argument worthy of a college educated adult.
Hear that Canadians, Brits, Swedes, Brazilians, Aussies, Irish, Saudis, etc.? America does it better than any other country. Period. And if you disagree with Adam Carolla, you are wrong because you disagree with Adam Carolla. |
Err... a bit of an overstatement, to be sure. Most '.....better than any other country in the world' comments are a bit of an overkill.
I do hope that this is not when we all go wild and start chanting 'USA! USA! USA!'^^ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
|
| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| "What is an American?" for example. |
Depends who you ask this to. There are many, particularly older Americans, that will give you a pretty 'old-fashioned' answer when asked in private. But in public is usually the least offending answer. Just like when you ask Europeans what they really think of immigration into their countries, dig a little deeper and you'll get the real answer. |
This type of post makes me vomit in my mouth. Yes, there is racism in Europe and the U.S. But even the most virulent racists (ok, maybe there are one or two, but don't pretend they are the majority) in the U.S. don't question an American's citizenship based on skin color. |
Have you been to the American SW?
|
T-J is playing a little game called "Stupid or Liar." What he's implying is that people in the U.S. will question whether or not brown skinned American citizens are actually citizens. That s actually not what happens. Here's a fact: there are a large number of illegal aliens in the SW. T-J has engaged in a lot of non-thinking over this issue. What actually happens is not that people distrusts a person with a valid U.S. I.D. What happens is that people don't believe a person is an American who has *no* I.D.
We can sum this up thus: Let's ask 1,000 white Americans living in the SW these questions....
Me: This (hispanic) guy has a U.S. I.D. Do you think he's an American?
My guess: the overwhelming response is yes, he's an American.
T-J would like to conflate the issue by having 1,000 Americans driving by a work site and asking them, "Do you think those clearly undocumented illegal immigrants are Americans?" And when the answer "No" he pats himself on the back and considers the argument won. |
What is a "clearly undocumented illegal immigrant"?
Interesting choice of words on your part, as is your focus on documentation.
Here's a poll that might interest you.
http://nbclatino.com/2012/09/12/poll-1-out-of-3-americans-think-most-hispanics-are-undocumented/
| Quote: |
For many non-Latino Americans, the words �Latino� and �illegal immigrant� are one and the same. A new poll released by by the National Hispanic Media Coalition and Latino Decisions finds over 30 percent of non-Hispanics believe a majority (over half) of Hispanics are undocumented. However, the actual figure of undocumented Hispanics in the U.S. is around 18 percent, and only 37 percent of U.S. Hispanics are actually immigrants, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
Cherry picked example is cherry picked example.
Asian-Americans as a group are *commonly* accepted as Americans. Not only that, they are held up as an *ideal* of what students should aspire to be. Are you really sure you want to use Asian-Americans as an example to illustrate your point? |
No, they aren't. Sorry.
|
Look, I don't have time to deal with your crap. America handles different races better than any other country in the world. End of story. If you disagree, flat out, you're wrong. If you do agree, then stop arguing. |
Odd, I always thought of America as HAVING race issues - race riots and the like helped to cement that. It would not be my leading example of race relations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
|
| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Adam..I certainly would not use the US as an example of a country that handles different races the best...seriously.
You could pick other examples to make your point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
javis
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
|
| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
Have you been to the American SW?
T-J is playing a little game called "Stupid or Liar." What he's implying is that people in the U.S. will question whether or not brown skinned American citizens are actually citizens. That s actually not what happens. Here's a fact: there are a large number of illegal aliens in the SW. T-J has engaged in a lot of non-thinking over this issue. What actually happens is not that people distrusts a person with a valid U.S. I.D. What happens is that people don't believe a person is an American who has *no* I.D.
We can sum this up thus: Let's ask 1,000 white Americans living in the SW these questions....
Me: This (hispanic) guy has a U.S. I.D. Do you think he's an American?
My guess: the overwhelming response is yes, he's an American.
T-J would like to conflate the issue by having 1,000 Americans driving by a work site and asking them, "Do you think those clearly undocumented illegal immigrants are Americans?" And when the answer "No" he pats himself on the back and considers the argument won. |
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| Look, I don't have time to deal with your crap. America handles different races better than any other country in the world. End of story. If you disagree, flat out, you're wrong. If you do agree, then stop arguing. |
America handles different races so well, that we doubt eachother's status as Americans based solely on their color of the other's skin, based on your own example. Don't you think it's degrading for a US legal permanent resident or citizen of Hispanic heritage to have to present documentation to be acknowledged as an American in some circles? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
markness
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
|
| Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| javis wrote: |
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
Have you been to the American SW?
T-J is playing a little game called "Stupid or Liar." What he's implying is that people in the U.S. will question whether or not brown skinned American citizens are actually citizens. That s actually not what happens. Here's a fact: there are a large number of illegal aliens in the SW. T-J has engaged in a lot of non-thinking over this issue. What actually happens is not that people distrusts a person with a valid U.S. I.D. What happens is that people don't believe a person is an American who has *no* I.D.
We can sum this up thus: Let's ask 1,000 white Americans living in the SW these questions....
Me: This (hispanic) guy has a U.S. I.D. Do you think he's an American?
My guess: the overwhelming response is yes, he's an American.
T-J would like to conflate the issue by having 1,000 Americans driving by a work site and asking them, "Do you think those clearly undocumented illegal immigrants are Americans?" And when the answer "No" he pats himself on the back and considers the argument won. |
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| Look, I don't have time to deal with your crap. America handles different races better than any other country in the world. End of story. If you disagree, flat out, you're wrong. If you do agree, then stop arguing. |
America handles different races so well, that we doubt eachother's status as Americans based solely on their color of the other's skin, based on your own example. Don't you think it's degrading for a US legal permanent resident or citizen of Hispanic heritage to have to present documentation to be acknowledged as an American in some circles? |
My friend was in Chicago and he got punched in the face by two young punks, naturally he called the police. The operator asked him for his name, and what had asked him what had happened. After hearing what had happened she said to him: "Were they black or latino?". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
|
| Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ^^What was the answer? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chrisinkorea2011
Joined: 16 Jan 2011
|
| Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 7:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
Cherry picked example is cherry picked example.
Asian-Americans as a group are *commonly* accepted as Americans. Not only that, they are held up as an *ideal* of what students should aspire to be. Are you really sure you want to use Asian-Americans as an example to illustrate your point? |
I wholeheartedly agree with this as many parents of asian american children would as well. My basis? I am an asian-american with many of the same friends. Many students and parents alike think think that we are geniuses at math, sciences and school in general. Its a common fact. "You having problems with math? ask John Kim/ Patty Li/ Sam Nguyen/etc, they are asian so I bet you they are great at it."
funny stuff |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I got an idea. How about within 100 of the border, you hire depuities to ask a random 100 people a day for their I.D? They must be members of all races and skin colors. Ask 20 whites, 20 blacks, 20, Asians, 20 hispanics, and 20 other randoms? Anyone who produces I.D. proves they're a citizen and left alone. Maybe this stops all the racial crap. Maybe there are illegal Europeans or Canadians who have overstayed their American visa or maybe involved in some shady things. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
