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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| There is no point in arguing about how influential AES is because we can't quantify that. I am just saying it is not similar to the minutemen and it does stalk NETs. |
It's more similar than Stormfront and it DID, not does stalk NETs. Was this on a large scale?
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| Why? Well to give you an idea of how driven the country is to remain homogenous there was a racist group set up for the sole purpose of harassing foreigners working here on TEMPORARY LEGAL VISAS performing a job native Koreans can't do. There is no reason to have anti-foreigner hate groups in Korea, it is not anywhere close to being as diverse as the USA |
Dude, in EVERY country in the world, you are going to find xenophobic, nationalistic people and they will form groups. Please find me one nation on Earth that doesn't have such a group.
It's a law of percentages. In a country of 50 million people, you are bound to get .0001 percent of the population that decides to join a group like AES. That doesn't make them a bellwether.
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| And to give you an idea of how lopsided people's expectations are, right now you are comparing a group in the USA that tries to keep ILLEGAL immigrants out to a group in Korea that stalks LEGAL immigrants. |
AES would say that they were stalking people engaged in illegal activity. Heck, they even stated that they only targeted "illegal, immoral" NETs and not every NET as a whole. Now that's putting a nice face on ugly, but that's similar to the Minutemen saying they are only targeting illegals and not Hispanic-Americans. Of course, the Minutemen also target American citizens who engage in activity that supports illegal immigration. They also have tenuous links to groups which target Muslim-Americans.
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| Meanwhile there is outrage in the USA among it's citizens over this group that is fighting ILLEGAL immigrants, while the group in Korea that stalks LEGAL immigrants just gets press time and meetings with politicians. |
First, most Koreans don't know about AES to form an opinion. As TUM showed, some regard them as racist.
And we don't even know the nature of their press times and political meetings. AES says they "got interviewed", but how long and what was the nature? Was the meeting with a politician one where they were sought out and gave advice, or one where they got their 15 minutes in front of the Assemblywoman to say their piece and then it was the next schmuck in line.
It's like saying because Bin Laden once shook Saddam Hussein's hand and met him for 15 minutes that somehow Iraq was linked to Al-Qaeda and that al-Jazeera giving Ayman Al-Zawahiri an interview pre-1998 means that the network was supporting a fundamentalist Islamic revolution.
Sorry, your case for AES links to politicians and the media is as strong as the case for Cat Stevens being linked to Al-Qaeda. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There is no point in arguing about how influential AES is because we can't quantify that. I am just saying it is not similar to the minutemen and it does stalk NETs. |
It's more similar than Stormfront and it DID, not does stalk NETs. Was this on a large scale?
| Quote: |
| Why? Well to give you an idea of how driven the country is to remain homogenous there was a racist group set up for the sole purpose of harassing foreigners working here on TEMPORARY LEGAL VISAS performing a job native Koreans can't do. There is no reason to have anti-foreigner hate groups in Korea, it is not anywhere close to being as diverse as the USA |
Dude, in EVERY country in the world, you are going to find xenophobic, nationalistic people and they will form groups. Please find me one nation on Earth that doesn't have such a group.
It's a law of percentages. In a country of 50 million people, you are bound to get .0001 percent of the population that decides to join a group like AES. That doesn't make them a bellwether.
| Quote: |
| And to give you an idea of how lopsided people's expectations are, right now you are comparing a group in the USA that tries to keep ILLEGAL immigrants out to a group in Korea that stalks LEGAL immigrants. |
AES would say that they were stalking people engaged in illegal activity. Heck, they even stated that they only targeted "illegal, immoral" NETs and not every NET as a whole. Now that's putting a nice face on ugly, but that's similar to the Minutemen saying they are only targeting illegals and not Hispanic-Americans. Of course, the Minutemen also target American citizens who engage in activity that supports illegal immigration. They also have tenuous links to groups which target Muslim-Americans.
| Quote: |
| Meanwhile there is outrage in the USA among it's citizens over this group that is fighting ILLEGAL immigrants, while the group in Korea that stalks LEGAL immigrants just gets press time and meetings with politicians. |
First, most Koreans don't know about AES to form an opinion. As TUM showed, some regard them as racist.
And we don't even know the nature of their press times and political meetings. AES says they "got interviewed", but how long and what was the nature? Was the meeting with a politician one where they were sought out and gave advice, or one where they got their 15 minutes in front of the Assemblywoman to say their piece and then it was the next schmuck in line.
It's like saying because Bin Laden once shook Saddam Hussein's hand and met him for 15 minutes that somehow Iraq was linked to Al-Qaeda and that al-Jazeera giving Ayman Al-Zawahiri an interview pre-1998 means that the network was supporting a fundamentalist Islamic revolution.
Sorry, your case for AES links to politicians and the media is as strong as the case for Cat Stevens being linked to Al-Qaeda. |
AES had a radio interview with SBS, the interview was almost a promotional piece. That is enough for media proof, but as far as how influential it was I really can't say. I don't even understand the rest of what you are writing. You just speak in ambiguities and make comparisons that are baseless.
I have to say this for the 1000th time, I'm not talking about the level of influence AES has. I am saying the nature of the AES and the nature of the Minutemen are completely different. I am also saying that AES either did (or does I don't have time to research I am just annoyed that someone tried to say that wasn't part of the organization) stalk foreigners. That was it. You are trying to bring up a bunch of stuff about the level of influence they have, and I'm not even talking about that. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
[ The politicians would do this if there was outrage, but there is NONE....why? Because the local Korean people don't care about what the AES is doing to foreigners, so there you go.
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It would be far more accurate to state "the local Korean people don't KNOW what the AES is doing to foreigners"....I'd be surprised if most knew what AES was.
Anyway here are three Korean people who HAVE heard of AES...let's see if they "don't care".
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As for charges of racism, Anti-English Spectrum`s host Naver.com, said they have received no complaints. The PR department for Korea`s biggest portal stated that even though the cafe is rather large - having 17,000 members - prior to being contacted by The Korea Herald a representative said she was unaware of the group. When asked about the "black pig" comment*, the representative stated that "in this case `black pig` is definitely a racist comment."...
...When reached for comment, the director of the AIDS Prevention Center in Daegu did not have nice things to say about Anti-English Spectrum. "I think they are highly nationalistic and they treat foreigners as our enemies. ... I do believe in freedom of speech, however, what they are sending out is highly controversial and might send out the wrong perception," said Kim Ji-young."
[Bill 3356] states that in 2007 the Itaewon AIDS clinic performed 80 percent of its tests on foreign teachers and foreign white collar workers.
Korea AIDS/HIV Prevention & Support Center statistics for that year show that the 80 percent statistic is false. Furthermore, KHAP director Yu Sung-chal told Expat Living that the clinic "moved to Seongbuk-gu in 2006, so it makes no sense to say that the Itaewon clinic sent out these statistics." |
*"black pig" was a AES term used to describe some foreigners.
So here we have 2 Koreans condemning AES's statements as racist and nationalistic and a third debunking their alleged statistics. |
Good job finding two Korean people that spoke out against it. Is that what you mean when you demand statistical evidence from anyone that makes a generalization about Korea? So basically if I have two Korean people discriminate against me then maybe I can claim all of Korea discriminates. Got it.
AES is now called "Citizens for Right English Education" it's a more diplomatic name. They have posts on their forum that date as recently as yesterday (June 6). Maybe I'm wrong on this and someone can correct me if that is the case, my Korean is ok but it's not good enough to translate the whole page.
http://cafe.naver.com/englishspectrum/10079
There you go. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
[
Yeah there are groups that are worse than the AES in the USA in my opinion. The difference is their is an outcry against them.
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I posted a link which shows that the Minutemen (who we all agree are worse than AES get approval from members of the government plus governors of U.S states.
And even so...so what? Have any of these outcries abolished these groups? AES is defunct...that's more than any of the outcries back home have done. For example the KKK was driven underground by the "outcries" yet it still exists. |
If you want to play this game then a find a group that is stalking foreigners that are teaching a foreign language TEMPORARILY and LEGALLY in the USA. Until then, quit with the whole minutemen thing. |
Find a group that is stalking foreigners in KOREA. And don't use AES because that organization doesn't exist anymore as people have been trying to tell you for page after page.
It's over...you can relax now the AES bogyman is dead.
The Minutemen on the other hand still do exist as do other hate groups. |
oops, I meant to respond to this post.
http://cafe.naver.com/englishspectrum/10079
There you go. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:30 am Post subject: |
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So whats the argument then?
AES appears to be a dead organization now.
However, to be sure perhaps some of you should form a crack team of anti-AES FT operatives and recon AES's evil lair! Just to be sure the great evil is indeed gone.
It is the only way to be 100% sure you are safe. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| Why does it seem like every organization/site in Korea that runs with acronyms seems to putter into a dismal death? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Why does it seem like every organization/site in Korea that runs with acronyms seems to putter into a dismal death? |
Death by acronym...it is a deadly disease. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
So whats the argument then?
AES appears to be a dead organization now.
However, to be sure perhaps some of you should form a crack team of anti-AES FT operatives and recon AES's evil lair! Just to be sure the great evil is indeed gone.
It is the only way to be 100% sure you are safe. |
Well you tried to say that AES does not stalk people. I provided links to prove that they do (or did, whichever). You are now trying to change the subject. I'm kind of losing respect for you here, this is pretty sad.
And Steel rails was trying to compare them to the Minutemen, which was ridiculous. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:45 am Post subject: |
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For the LAST time. I did NOT say AES did not stalk some people. I said THEY DID NOT SYSTEMATICALLY do this on any sort of national scale.
Please stop trying to twist what I say to try and continue this argument.
No subject change at all.
Have a pleasant weekend despite the AES stalkers that hound your every step....  |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
For the LAST time. I did NOT say AES did not stalk some people. I said THEY DID NOT SYSTEMATICALLY do this on any sort of national scale.
Please stop trying to twist what I say to try and continue this argument.
No subject change at all.
Have a pleasant weekend despite the AES stalkers that hound your every step.... |
They do systematically stalk foreigners, they do it all over the country so in that regard it is on a national scale.
Large? Well that is a matter of opinion and like their influence it is impossible to measure. I'm not twisting anything here. And I'm not paranoid of the AES, I'm just annoyed at how you seem to think any racist group that stalks people is a laughing matter. The difficulties foreigners face here always seem to be a source of entertainment for some people until they affect those people on a personal level. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:56 am Post subject: |
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That's BS sorry but it is.
Seriously, lets drop this as it will lead nowhere!
you think they (AES) are\were everywhere...I simply see no real proof of it.
this is perfectly fine, can we just agree to disagree? All that is happening now is repetition of our respective views and positions with you trying to twist what I said and me perhaps miss interpreting what you are saying.
Note: I never did nor do I now think the difficulties some FTs experience in Korea are funny or not real. I experienced some of them myself. I do think some people here choose to paint with a very large brush extrapolating on things until they become so bloated they are cartoonish and that this helps or serves no one.
So, without further ado, this was interesting for a time but really..it has run its course. You want the last word...you got it! |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
So, without further ado, this was interesting for a time but really..it has run its course. You want the last word...you got it! |
Well, I can see that is as close as you are going to get to admitting you were wrong. Now let me get back to my life of extreme paranoia. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
That's BS sorry but it is.
Seriously, lets drop this as it will lead nowhere!
you think they (AES) are\were everywhere...I simply see no real proof of it. |
I agree. Focusing on the AES will only lead us astray.
The fact is, according to the study, South Korea is a deeply racist country. No amount of apologism will gloss over that fact. Look at the map, you have to leave East Asia to find a correspondingly racist country (although no doubt North Korea would be as racist if not moreso). The nearest appears to be Vietnam, down there in Southeast Asia. And if you want a more racist country, you will have to resort to India, founder of the caste system. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| For the LAST time. I did NOT say AES did not stalk some people. I said THEY DID NOT SYSTEMATICALLY do this on any sort of national scale. |
You've been proven wrong a couple of times in this thread.
The AES stopped after getting publicity in the Western media, thus embarrassing Korea. Now it seems they've changed their name.
| Quote: |
However, to be sure perhaps some of you should form a crack team of anti-AES FT operatives and recon AES's evil lair! Just to be sure the great evil is indeed gone.
It is the only way to be 100% sure you are safe. |
| Quote: |
| Have a pleasant weekend despite the AES stalkers that hound your every step.... |
It's easy to be glib when you live in Canada but throughout this thread you've been shown to be wrong. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
[
I agree. Focusing on the AES will only lead us astray.
The fact is, according to the study, South Korea is a deeply racist country. No amount of apologism will gloss over that fact. Look at the map, you have to leave East Asia to find a correspondingly racist country (although no doubt North Korea would be as racist if not moreso). The nearest appears to be Vietnam, down there in Southeast Asia. And if you want a more racist country, you will have to resort to India, founder of the caste system. |
Except that the map was debunked as early as the first page in this thread. A number of glaring errors were spotted. Such as NORTH Korea being LESS racist than SOUTH Korea.
Not only that here's a professor who offers several critiques about this map as well. Here are some of them
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/17/5-insights-on-the-racial-tolerance-and-ethnicity-maps-from-an-ethnic-conflict-professor/
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1) It�s tough to gauge racial intolerance through just one metric.
(2) Different people might hear the question differently
(3) What�s the link between diversity and conflict? |
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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