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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Ginormousaurus wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
As far as I know, Canada has no income requirements for sponsoring a spouse while overseas. If, however, you are sponsoring from Canada, I think there is one - just so we have that smidgen of information added in.  |
I'm in the final stages of sponsoring (from within Canada) my fiance for permanent residency. There were no income requirements for either of us. I am a full-time student and she came immediately after graduating university. |
It will vary from province to province. Also your sponsorship agreement makes you completely financially responsible for your fiance for a certain number of years.
The form I linked earlier does have a section that requires you show how you will support your spouse financially. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| nick70100 wrote: |
[
But in most cases the only reason these guys are importing foreign brides in the first place is because Korean women won't marry them. No matter what the intent was, essentially the result is that poor men won't be able to marry.
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If they can not afford to support a foreign bride then they have no business getting married. Bringing someone over here and basically subjecting her to a lifetime of hard work and grinding poverty just because they want companionship is incredibly egotistically selfish to the nth degree.
Yeah it may not be fair to the person who wants to get married...but it's not fair either to the bride or (which is a bigger issue) the kids such people may have. |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| nick70100 wrote: |
[
But in most cases the only reason these guys are importing foreign brides in the first place is because Korean women won't marry them. No matter what the intent was, essentially the result is that poor men won't be able to marry.
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If they can not afford to support a foreign bride then they have no business getting married. Bringing someone over here and basically subjecting her to a lifetime of hard work and grinding poverty just because they want companionship is incredibly egotistically selfish to the nth degree.
Yeah it may not be fair to the person who wants to get married...but it's not fair either to the bride or (which is a bigger issue) the kids such people may have. |
The price of a foreign bride isn't cheap by any means. Otherwise there wouldn't be such a market for the services these guys seek. I understand that the risks far outweigh the benefits, but the men who look for this kind of woman probably would have minimal to zero chances of marrying a Korean woman, especially when they have the whole family thing to go through in terms of meeting, agreeing, etc. The "matching making" concept of marriage has just reached another level as it concerns foreign brides. Now, it affects everyone who is on marriage visas, so it is the reality for better or worse. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
| I really think anyone who does not speak English here is being racist and assuming Koreans are not good at English. |
I see most of your points, but I want to clarify this one; you think people who do not speak English to Koreans while living in Korea are racist? Accusing someone of being racist is a very strong condemnation, and if you think that using Korean to speak to Koreans when the language of the country is Korean, well... then I cannot understand that point at all. On the contrary, I would argue that it is racist to expect Koreans to understand English just because it is the language used by the wealthy and predominantly Caucasian nations of the West.
Koreans do spend a lot of money on English education, but I would estimate that only 5 percent of the population (if that) speaks English well enough to carry on any sort of conversation. Maybe another 20 percent or so are at a high beginner level, and another 40 percent know a handful of words and phrases. The rest know literally no English at all. If you are somehow able to get by using only English, that's good for you. But I don't see how you can do it, as you couldn't express yourself in any meaningful, detailed way.
If I am out and somebody speaks to me in English, I will response using English. If their English is good enough as to where we can communicate in English, I will continue. If not, then I will switch to Korean. The rest of the time, I speak Korean. I think just going around and speaking English all the time is just arrogant and reeks of cultural imperialism. Yes, English is the most widely used and taught language. Yes, businesses should try to accommodate all their customers and offer foreign language service as much as possible. But we live in Korea. Korean is the language of Korea. If we want to interact with most of the locals, I think we have at least some obligation to learn some Korean. The same is true of any country.
Sure, there are Mexicans in the US who don't speak much English, but they generally aren't married to US citizens and often don't plan on settling down in the US long term. So they end up staying within their Spanish-speaking communities, isolated from the larger, English speaking community. This creates divisions within the society that some people, especially in the US. This is why to get citizenship in the US, everybody has to pass some sort of English proficiency test.
Native-speaking English teachers in Korea live similar sort of lives. They don't stay here long term. Most do not learn much Korean. So they end up just getting by using basic English with the minimal number of Koreans they interact with and mostly stay within their English-speaking bubbles. That's fine, but it does lead to resentment on the behalf of Koreans. My Korean is at a low-intermediate level, yet I've had Koreans ask me why I don't speak better Korean. After all, I have been living in Korea, where few people speak English, for almost 7 years now. I think that's a valid criticism.
When people do not learn the language of the country they live in, it does not help them become fully functioning members of the society, which is desirable for the foreign brides to become. They are moving to Korea to live with Korean men in remote areas of the country where they will be surrounded by Koreans who, by and large, only speak Korean. They'll have to learn the language to form any sort of meaningful life in Korea. Getting the equivalent of TOPIK level 1 would only take around 100 to 200 hours of studying (this is how many hours of instruction is provided in a level 1 Korean course at a university, upon completion of which you are theoretically capable of passing the level 1 TOPIK).
Likewise, if a Mexican woman marries a Caucasian American who lives in Minnesota, there probably won't be too many Spanish speakers, if any, so she'd have to learn at least some English to function in society.
In short, requiring people to know some of the language of the country allows them to integrate better into and function more easily within the society. To not expect people to know even some basic language ability is, from my perspective, counter-intuitive and a potential source of social discord. If you can't agree to that, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by fustiancorduroy on Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| Are people actually objecting to this? I think it's in the foreign spouse's best interest to have some knowledge of the local language. I see this less about protecting Korean culture, and more about protecting the FS, and possibly the marriage. |
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uklathemock
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Are people actually objecting to this? I think it's in the foreign spouse's best interest to have some knowledge of the local language. I see this less about protecting Korean culture, and more about protecting the FS, and possibly the marriage. |
I'm looking at this from the perspective of a foreigner who makes money here. I know several male and some female foreigners who married Koreans who weren't working at the time of marriage, and they basically became stay-at-home moms or dads after marriage. So, the Korean spouses wouldn't have been able to show the 1.1 million minimum.
As for the high divorce rate or domestic violence that the government is trying to cull, I don't see language as being the cause there. (If you're beating your wife, do you want them to talk back?) |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Oh, I don't know. I think being able to communicate in a mutual language is important for a marriage... as well as being able to communicate with authorities if things go south. Again, as far as I can gather, they're asking for minimal k-skill, right?
Perhaps the income sponsorship could be "to bring someone into the country. maybe a set $$$ savings amount for those already here (?) |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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I know from my perspective that communication in a marriage is vital to the relationship. My wife speaks very good English and I speak fairly good Korean these days, but it hasn't always been that way. I understand the need for people to be able to communicate, other than staring and smiling at each other across the table when you are having dinner. It should be a two-way street though. Not only for the foreign spouse to do all the work in learning Korean. The Korean spouse should also be willing to learn the language of their wife or husband for the sake of better communication anyway. This way it is a mutual thing where both husband and wife are doing what they can and should to make their living arrangement the best that it can be. IMO
I suppose if people didn't want to risk having to take a qualifying test here in Korea, which is known to come up with some fairly "different" rules from time to time, then they probably should have considered trying to find a spouse that could speak Korean instead of going the mail bride service. I know it sounds cold to say it this way, but this is the fact. |
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TL
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Has anyone used a consulting agency to help you sponsor your spouse to Canada? |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
| big_fella1 wrote: |
| I really think anyone who does not speak English here is being racist and assuming Koreans are not good at English. |
I see most of your points, but I want to clarify this one; you think people who do not speak English to Koreans while living in Korea are racist? Accusing someone of being racist is a very strong condemnation, and if you think that using Korean to speak to Koreans when the language of the country is Korean, well... then I cannot understand that point at all. On the contrary, I would argue that it is racist to expect Koreans to understand English just because it is the language used by the wealthy and predominantly Caucasian nations of the West. |
For starters lets get the facts straight. The USA does not have an official language source: http://answers.usa.gov/system/selfservice.controller?CONFIGURATION=1000&PARTITION_ID=1&CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&USERTYPE=1&LANGUAGE=en&COUNTRY=US&ARTICLE_ID=10629 and many countries that have English as the/an official language are not rich or caucasian despite what racist Korean E2 visa regulations say. Source: http://www.ncsu.edu/grad/handbook/official_language_english.htm
I don't understand your claim about calling someone a racist is a serious thing as I know a solid body of Koreans who are proud of both their racism and racial purity, although taken to the nth degree racial purity is inbreeding as demonstrated by the Hapsburgs.
If Korea was legitimately concerned about foreign spouses they would be charging people smugglers aka marriage brokers not introducing language regulations.
But lets be honest Korean Nationalism is on the rise. In 6 weeks there has been no attempt to arrest the terrorists behind the Daegu bombing.
I for one will take my wife and daughter and doctorate to a less xenophobic country. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Whether you agree with Korean E-2 regulations or not, calling them racist is questionable. A Caucasian citizen of Ghana cannot get an E-2 visa, while an African citizen if the USA (or more saliently, of South Africa) can, and I have seen such people working here.
| big_fella1 wrote: |
| If Korea was legitimately concerned about foreign spouses they would be charging people smugglers aka marriage brokers not introducing language regulations. |
But Korea does not want to sto bride importation, it just wants to ensure that the man can support his wife and that the wife has enough Korean to hopefully begin to integrate into mainstream society and culture and to get help if she needs it. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
I for one will take my wife and daughter and doctorate to a less xenophobic country.
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I completely respect your opinion.
I am curious as to the level of your indignation though.
When you say "I'm moving to a less xenophobic country." are you;
A) leaving on the next plane you can book tickets for
B) leaving after you take care of some financial obligations, such as finishing a current housing contract or selling a home
C) leaving after you save more money here to make the transition back easier
D) leaving after you finish current studies and save money
This is not to be confused with the "if you don't like it then leave" meme. This is directed at the people the keep saying "I'm out of here." for years.
Really? You've had enough and are pulling stakes? Cool. Best of luck to you and yours. But for God's sake sh!t or get off the pot.
Having made the move with family both from and to Korea, I can tell you it doesn't take years to accomplish. And if other priorities are more important then that's fine too, but perhaps you should tone down the rhetoric while you bide your time because your indignation obviously is outweighed by other factors.
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| big_fella1 wrote: |
I for one will take my wife and daughter and doctorate to a less xenophobic country.
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I completely respect your opinion.
I am curious as to the level of your indignation though.
When you say "I'm moving to a less xenophobic country." are you;
A) leaving on the next plane you can book tickets for
B) leaving after you take care of some financial obligations, such as finishing a current housing contract or selling a home
C) leaving after you save more money here to make the transition back easier
D) leaving after you finish current studies and save money
This is not to be confused with the "if you don't like it then leave" meme. This is directed at the people the keep saying "I'm out of here." for years.
Really? You've had enough and are pulling stakes? Cool. Best of luck to you and yours. But for God's sake sh!t or get off the pot.
Having made the move with family both from and to Korea, I can tell you it doesn't take years to accomplish. And if other priorities are more important then that's fine too, but perhaps you should tone down the rhetoric while you bide your time because your indignation obviously is outweighed by other factors.
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As someone who has made the move from Canada to Korea (alone) then from Korea to Canada (with a family) I have to agree with TJ, it does not take that long to accomplish. I too would say do your thing or get off the pot! I am also puzzled by people who complain about a place and talk of leaving for years but keep on staying. I understand the reasons can be financial for some but at some point, you have just one life to live and you do have options.... |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| big_fella1 wrote: |
I for one will take my wife and daughter and doctorate to a less xenophobic country.
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I completely respect your opinion.
I am curious as to the level of your indignation though.
When you say "I'm moving to a less xenophobic country." are you;
A) leaving on the next plane you can book tickets for
B) leaving after you take care of some financial obligations, such as finishing a current housing contract or selling a home
C) leaving after you save more money here to make the transition back easier
D) leaving after you finish current studies and save money
This is not to be confused with the "if you don't like it then leave" meme. This is directed at the people the keep saying "I'm out of here." for years.
Really? You've had enough and are pulling stakes? Cool. Best of luck to you and yours. But for God's sake sh!t or get off the pot.
Having made the move with family both from and to Korea, I can tell you it doesn't take years to accomplish. And if other priorities are more important then that's fine too, but perhaps you should tone down the rhetoric while you bide your time because your indignation obviously is outweighed by other factors.
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As someone who has made the move from Canada to Korea (alone) then from Korea to Canada (with a family) I have to agree with TJ, it does not take that long to accomplish. I too would say do your thing or get off the pot! I am also puzzled by people who complain about a place and talk of leaving for years but keep on staying. I understand the reasons can be financial for some but at some point, you have just one life to live and you do have options.... |
Guys I don't know who runs your household but in my house I'm the man and I have to do whatever she wants.  and she wants our daughter to start at a private school in Australia on 27th of January 2015. As for making money here, hardly. I believe I'm on the poverty line at home and not far off here. Korean banks are owed $1trillion
so maybe I'm better off.
My comments are made from a love of Korea despite the frustrations. But I see Japan as a big warning for what happens to countries think they can take "foreigners" money without opening their country. Yes Korea is in someways more advanced than Japan but in other ways they act the same as Japan. I personally blame the occupation period for this but it needs to change.
A service sector needs to be developed to employee the thousands of university graduates being produced each year and to allow women to reenter the work force to pay the taxes to support the society.
But thanks for the advice guys. Keep it coming. Obviously these are frustrations I don't share with my friends or family so I thank you for being here. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Fair point about who runs the household! 
I understand your challenge and how hard it can be to make the decision. I guess my situation was different as we always had lucrative options in Korea (long term) and Canada. We had no intention of moving but what I will call an unusual set of circumstances led us to end up moving to Canada.
I am aware our situation was more favorable than that of many other expats, then again I had done my best to hedge my bets and leave myself lots of professional options.
Best of luck to you! |
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