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Ginormousaurus
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Location: 700 Ft. Pulpit
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 Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| There was no real malice in his statement at all. |
If lack of malicious intent excused all offences, then nobody would ever go to jail for drunk driving.
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It's a good thing nobody suggested it then! |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| There was no real malice in his statement at all. |
If lack of malicious intent excused all offences, then nobody would ever go to jail for drunk driving.
If you think that what he said is unlikely to cause offence then you are either ridiculously naive, grotesquely lacking in social skills, or a passive closet racist. |
You are a serial whiney bitch on this board who lives for throwing derogatory slights at Koreans, so think about what you are saying. I was just considering what Fox said, because it seemed quite a reasonable perspective.
I grew up in 1980s Britain as a member of an ethnic minority, so don't tell me what racism is and isn't. Dickhead. |
Did I hit a nerve?
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Not even close. You sit firmly in the basher camp and have been called out before for making what are at best massive sweeping statements about Koreans - some people could easily interpret as racist remarks. So, for you to accuse anyone of being racist is a bit rich. To be honest, I don't think you are racist at all, rather you need to grow a set and STFU instead of whinging because an ajossi stared at you and your girlfriend. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Going back to the OP, the reason I find this and the whole Sergio Garcia debacle amusing is because I am laughing at them, not with them. I don't even begin to see how that makes me racist too.
As I explained, the knowledge of how awful their actions were is for me part of the joke. Like watching a stand up comic cracking jokes about a taboo subject, it is that 'he didn't really say that, did he?' reaction. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| There was no real malice in his statement at all. |
If lack of malicious intent excused all offences, then nobody would ever go to jail for drunk driving.
If you think that what he said is unlikely to cause offence then you are either ridiculously naive, grotesquely lacking in social skills, or a passive closet racist. |
You are a serial whiney bitch on this board who lives for throwing derogatory slights at Koreans, so think about what you are saying. I was just considering what Fox said, because it seemed quite a reasonable perspective.
I grew up in 1980s Britain as a member of an ethnic minority, so don't tell me what racism is and isn't. Dickhead. |
Did I hit a nerve?
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Not even close. You sit firmly in the basher camp and have been called out before for making what are at best massive sweeping statements about Koreans - some people could easily interpret as racist remarks. So, for you to accuse anyone of being racist is a bit rich. To be honest, I don't think you are racist at all, rather you need to grow a set and STFU instead of whinging because an ajossi stared at you and your girlfriend. |
In Julius' defense, he is negative towards EVERYONE. Some of the stuff he writes about back home (and oddly using Korea as a positive example) show him to be a misanthrope about the whole of humanity. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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What would the reaction be if it was flipped and someone said something similar about a Korean player:
�His face is too flat and his eyes are too small and slanted, so it is hard to bat because I can't see where he's looking and I can't tell him from the rest of the team because they all look alike to me anyway. So, I suffered a lot."
Don't think it would go over well... the speaker would probably never be allowed to play in the country again and there'd be massive protests demanding he be fired.
And I don't think 'honesty' would be a great defense either, especially in a public interview:
"What? I honestly think their faces are too flat and their eyes are too small! Just being honest!"
Ok, but one can be 'honest' and racist at the same time. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
What would the reaction be if it was flipped and someone said something similar about a Korean player:
�His face is too flat and his eyes are too small and slanted, so it is hard to bat because I can't see where he's looking and I can't tell him from the rest of the team because they all look alike to me anyway. So, I suffered a lot."
Don't think it would go over well... the speaker would probably never be allowed to play in the country again and there'd be massive protests demanding he be fired.
And I don't think 'honesty' would be a great defense either, especially in a public interview:
"What? I honestly think their faces are too flat and their eyes are too small! Just being honest!"
Ok, but one can be 'honest' and racist at the same time. |
I dunno, its Korea. If he just said something about Korean people's black hair providing an advantage during night games, you'd probably just see a bunch of players losing the dye and going straight black. With Koreans, they'd probably take it as a compliment.... |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
What would the reaction be if it was flipped and someone said something similar about a Korean player:
�His face is too flat and his eyes are too small and slanted, so it is hard to bat because I can't see where he's looking and I can't tell him from the rest of the team because they all look alike to me anyway. So, I suffered a lot."
Don't think it would go over well... the speaker would probably never be allowed to play in the country again and there'd be massive protests demanding he be fired.
And I don't think 'honesty' would be a great defense either, especially in a public interview:
"What? I honestly think their faces are too flat and their eyes are too small! Just being honest!"
Ok, but one can be 'honest' and racist at the same time. |
I dunno, its Korea. If he just said something about Korean people's black hair providing an advantage during night games, you'd probably just see a bunch of players losing the dye and going straight black. With Koreans, they'd probably take it as a compliment.... |
Uhhh...right. Ok... in your example...maybe. It is all about the win for them.
Who knows, maybe they'd all start getting eye surgery to make their eyes look bigger too. Oh wait...
The problem is those kinds of racially based comments are touchy because they play on racial characteristics, even if neutral or even complimentary, it's still potentially offensive to many to talk like that.
I've heard quite a few Korean guys say they aren't attracted to black girls because their skin is "too dark" so I doubt the guy is being complimentary when he says the other guy's face is "too black". |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
What would the reaction be if it was flipped and someone said something similar about a Korean player:
�His face is too flat and his eyes are too small and slanted, so it is hard to bat because I can't see where he's looking and I can't tell him from the rest of the team because they all look alike to me anyway. So, I suffered a lot."
Don't think it would go over well... the speaker would probably never be allowed to play in the country again and there'd be massive protests demanding he be fired.
And I don't think 'honesty' would be a great defense either, especially in a public interview:
"What? I honestly think their faces are too flat and their eyes are too small! Just being honest!"
Ok, but one can be 'honest' and racist at the same time. |
I dunno, its Korea. If he just said something about Korean people's black hair providing an advantage during night games, you'd probably just see a bunch of players losing the dye and going straight black. With Koreans, they'd probably take it as a compliment.... |
Uhhh...right. Ok... in your example...maybe. It is all about the win for them.
Who knows, maybe they'd all start getting eye surgery to make their eyes look bigger too. Oh wait...
The problem is those kinds of racially based comments are touchy because they play on racial characteristics, even if neutral or even complimentary, it's still potentially offensive to many to talk like that.
I've heard quite a few Korean guys say they aren't attracted to black girls because their skin is "too dark" so I doubt the guy is being complimentary when he says the other guy's face is "too black". |
That's all well and good. But one should be careful about making predictions like "If the situation were reversed, extreme situation X" would happen. Prediction is fine, prejudging is dangerous. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
The problem is those kinds of racially based comments are touchy because they play on racial characteristics, even if neutral or even complimentary, it's still potentially offensive to many |
Well thats it.
Westerners know the issues, we have no excuse. It surprises me that someone like cj1976 who has had much experience of racial diversity is not more sensitive somehow.
Koreans and many East Asians in gerneral often have had little or no experience of diversity however. Many of them do not mean to cause harm but they can be very, very naive when it comes to relating, talking to, or about people of other races.
Its mostly just lack of exposure. Give them time. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
Westerners know the issues, we have no excuse. It surprises me that someone like cj1976 who has had much experience of racial diversity is not more sensitive somehow. |
Maybe it's precisely his first hand experience which has left him understanding that patronizing, excessive, western-style "sensitivity" is over rated. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
Westerners know the issues, we have no excuse. It surprises me that someone like cj1976 who has had much experience of racial diversity is not more sensitive somehow. |
Maybe it's precisely his first hand experience which has left him understanding that patronizing, excessive, western-style "sensitivity" is over rated. |
This. And in my experience, truly diverse, integrated environments don't beget this sensitivity. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
Westerners know the issues, we have no excuse. It surprises me that someone like cj1976 who has had much experience of racial diversity is not more sensitive somehow. |
Maybe it's precisely his first hand experience which has left him understanding that patronizing, excessive, western-style "sensitivity" is over rated. |
I don't think its being over-sensitive to object to someone saying "Your face is too black, I suffered a lot".
In any case, you're not the injured party, so its not for you to decide wether its offensive or not.
Lets see what Youman himself had to say about it:
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
Westerners know the issues, we have no excuse. It surprises me that someone like cj1976 who has had much experience of racial diversity is not more sensitive somehow. |
Maybe it's precisely his first hand experience which has left him understanding that patronizing, excessive, western-style "sensitivity" is over rated. |
I don't think its being over-sensitive to object to someone saying "Your face is too black, I suffered a lot". |
Of course you don't think so. You've been trained from birth to wet your pants in response to situations like this.
| Julius wrote: |
| In any case, you're not the injured party, so its not for you to decide wether its offensive or not. |
There's a difference between "being offended" and "something being offensive." The former is subjective, and as such, can only be rightly judged by the experiencing party. The latter is phrased objectively, which implies not only that third parties can potentially access the truth of the matter, but that they may in fact be better judges of the truth in the matter.
I'll be frank: I don't care what the "victim" thinks here, because he's not actually a victim. In his heart of hearts he's probably more upset about the dismissal of his pitching talent than comments on the whiteness of his teeth. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
Westerners know the issues, we have no excuse. It surprises me that someone like cj1976 who has had much experience of racial diversity is not more sensitive somehow. |
Maybe it's precisely his first hand experience which has left him understanding that patronizing, excessive, western-style "sensitivity" is over rated. |
This and the thick skin it has given me. The comments made by the baseball player were unbelievable - same as the Sergio Garcia incident and the PGA bigwig who tried to clear the matter up by referring to 'coloured' players. I personally find those kind of situations hilarious.
Remember - laughing at them... |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
What would the reaction be if it was flipped and someone said something similar about a Korean player:
�His face is too flat and his eyes are too small and slanted, so it is hard to bat because I can't see where he's looking and I can't tell him from the rest of the team because they all look alike to me anyway. So, I suffered a lot."
Don't think it would go over well... the speaker would probably never be allowed to play in the country again and there'd be massive protests demanding he be fired.
And I don't think 'honesty' would be a great defense either, especially in a public interview:
"What? I honestly think their faces are too flat and their eyes are too small! Just being honest!"
Ok, but one can be 'honest' and racist at the same time. |
I dunno, its Korea. If he just said something about Korean people's black hair providing an advantage during night games, you'd probably just see a bunch of players losing the dye and going straight black. With Koreans, they'd probably take it as a compliment.... |
Uhhh...right. Ok... in your example...maybe. It is all about the win for them.
Who knows, maybe they'd all start getting eye surgery to make their eyes look bigger too. Oh wait...
The problem is those kinds of racially based comments are touchy because they play on racial characteristics, even if neutral or even complimentary, it's still potentially offensive to many to talk like that.
I've heard quite a few Korean guys say they aren't attracted to black girls because their skin is "too dark" so I doubt the guy is being complimentary when he says the other guy's face is "too black". |
That's all well and good. But one should be careful about making predictions like "If the situation were reversed, extreme situation X" would happen. Prediction is fine, prejudging is dangerous. |
Not really. Especially when the pre-judged are fairly predictable. Not to mention, you also offered a reversed situation with an even less likely outcome attached. So go on and lecture yourself as well. |
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