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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| ewlandon wrote: |
honestly please dont listen to any of these people. I cannot guarantee anything because each hogwon is different but I can say that if you are a grown up with somewhat thick skin you wont be one of these fools blacklisting a school because some new head teacher asked you not to dress like a god damned slob (reading through the tokyojon blacklist website). Please, really?
Also, the article about "should you teach in korea" is way way off.
Basically you may feel overwhelmed at first because everything is done differently and you are expected to be a teacher when you have no idea what you are doing, but if you can learn quickly and and you are personable you should be fine. If you end up at a shitty hogwon that doesn't pay you just do what you can to get paid and to get an LOR after finding another job.
My personal experience has been great at a hogwon. Never had an issue with pay, never had an issue with parents or students etc. The "should i work in korea" article says you will be overworked and have no free time... I find the contrary. I work from 2-9:30 (contract says 10 but they let me leave early because when classes are done my work is usually done). I only ever had to go to work on a weekend twice in the past two years (for a party and a parents thing). Sometimes they want you to do haeshik (drinking/eating after work) but how bad is that? Also, if you have plans already they shouldn't make a big deal about it (unless you are at a crappy hogwon).
I dunno where everyone else is working but as for myself and the people I know in Korea none of these horror stories are a reality. |
Good for you. Not everyone is going to be the 'super teacher' you are,
and not everyone is going to have the same idea of what a good hagwon
means.
Perhaps you'd like to share the names of some of those good hagwons then? Perhaps you'd be willing to recommend the OP for your school?
Why don't you and your friends post some of your experiences on the
"green list" for good schools?
The point is, who knows if the OP is going to be worth his salt or not?
I think he and his girlfriend should at least take some kind of a teaching
course and get some volunteer experience before they make the plunge.
The horror stories are not a reality for people you know, but they are a reality for far too many.
Some of them could be avoided if people were better prepared for the job. |
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ewlandon
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Location: teacher
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no super teacher but I have figured out how to do my job pretty well. I understand some people have a bad time. There are bad businesses everywhere and hogwon business is no exception. But everyone makes it sound so scary to come over here to work at a hogwon. The reality is those people were expecting some sort of "program" to hold their hand through the whole thing. This is not a "program" it is a normal job. If the job you accept is not good than find another job. Don't come to Korea if you don't think you could handle the difficulties of taking a bad job while in another country. You will not be able to stay at mom and dad's house while applying to the next gig.
Anyway I agree with what you are saying and when I said don't listen to any of these people I meant the people who say its a nightmare no one should fly to Korea for a hogwon job. |
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Waygeek
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:04 am Post subject: |
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My hagwon is awesome.
Some Hagwons are good, some are bad, some Public Schools are good, some are bad.
My Hagwon job is very low-pressure, but I'm not a tape recorder either (that's why I'd never do public school).
| augustine wrote: |
| I'd say what the posters above said in lesser words: Don't come to Korea to work at a hagwon. I have friends from the UK here and they say it's difficult to make money back home, and I fully understand that. But 95% of the Korean hagwons here will drive you to gloom. Not worth the risk. Try to better your situation back home by any means necessary before you take a Korean hagwon job. It's an evil racket. |
Nope, not true at all. If 'your mates' didn't research and ended up in a bad hagwon, well, do your homework next time. There are several extremely reputable chains that need to treat their staff well to keep their rep up.
| kimchipig wrote: |
| Teaching at a hagwan doesn't have to be all that bad. First of all, you have to realise that a lot of the complainers on ESL Cafe and rather young and many are in their first real jobs with their first real bosses. |
+111111111111111111111111111111111111111. Would love to see their faces as they realize real life is this 'hard' and it's not just 'teh evil Koreans!!'  |
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kimchipig
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Is Teaching In Hagwons THAT Bad? |
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| faeriehazel wrote: |
| forster.joe wrote: |
This is bearing in mind that we are currently living together in the UK, have a nice life together but are both stuck in fairly dead end, unsatisfying jobs with long hours to boot. |
I guess it depends on why you want to move here. Do you want to experience another culture? Do you want to try your hand at teaching? Do you want to earn more money to pay off student debt?
Working at a hakwon is pretty much a "dead end" job, unless you find the work satisfying in and of itself. There are very few hakwons where you have the opportunity to move up. Some of the bigger hakwons offer management or research opportunities, but most hakwons are pretty small and conservative when it comes to teaching methods. They are worried about their bottom line, about teacher and student complaints, about losing students to the myriad number of competitors out there. If you actually give a crap about teaching, working at these places can be pretty stressful and disheartening.
I actually love teaching and plan to do it the rest of my life. I was lucky enough to get a job that allows me complete autonomy when it comes to planning the curriculum. I get to work with very smart and motivated students. But these kinds of jobs are rare, I think, and require a lot of luck and a certain kind of resume.
I guess my point is, if you are coming to Korea simply because you are tired of your dead end job in the UK, you are probably going to be disappointed. But if are looking for new experiences in a different culture, and aren't too stressed out about finding the "perfect" job, a few years in Korea might be fun. |
I have some unpleasant news for you: working in Korea is a dead end. Period. Once you get to a university, you've hit the top and the top ain't want it used to be. In the year 2000, I had five months' vacation, free apartment, 16 hours and W2.0m. Then it didn't go up. It stayed there. In fact, I see my old job advertised for less money, more hours and fewer benefits then when I left in 2004.
With a couple of privates, it isn't bad money but not fantastic compared to what a good career or business can make in Canada. But that takes time and many people are impatient; they want big money now like they see on TV. It took me five hard years to live well on private lessons in Vancouver, but now, I am doing very well.
Most of teachers in Korea are very young. Careers take time to build, a lot of time. It took me twenty, yes, twenty years to build up a comfortable living after I left uni. Have you fun but always realise it is temporary. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Is Teaching In Hagwons THAT Bad? |
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| kimchipig wrote: |
[
I have some unpleasant news for you: working in Korea is a dead end. Period. Once you get to a university, you've hit the top and the top ain't want it used to be. In the year 2000, I had five months' vacation, free apartment, 16 hours and W2.0m... |
2 million is not the top, not even close...it is quite possible to make double that on an E-2 visa and that's without doing illegal privates.
Yes if you just want to coast along at a job then working in Korea (or most anywhere) is a dead end. |
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Waygeek
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Is Teaching In Hagwons THAT Bad? |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| kimchipig wrote: |
[
I have some unpleasant news for you: working in Korea is a dead end. Period. Once you get to a university, you've hit the top and the top ain't want it used to be. In the year 2000, I had five months' vacation, free apartment, 16 hours and W2.0m... |
2 million is not the top, not even close...it is quite possible to make double that on an E-2 visa and that's without doing illegal privates.
Yes if you just want to coast along at a job then working in Korea (or most anywhere) is a dead end. |
How would you suggest going about this? I know if you end up marrying a Korean it's fine with privates, but how to make real money at a uni job on an E-2? |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Is Teaching In Hagwons THAT Bad? |
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| kimchipig wrote: |
| faeriehazel wrote: |
| forster.joe wrote: |
This is bearing in mind that we are currently living together in the UK, have a nice life together but are both stuck in fairly dead end, unsatisfying jobs with long hours to boot. |
I guess it depends on why you want to move here. Do you want to experience another culture? Do you want to try your hand at teaching? Do you want to earn more money to pay off student debt?
Working at a hakwon is pretty much a "dead end" job, unless you find the work satisfying in and of itself. There are very few hakwons where you have the opportunity to move up. Some of the bigger hakwons offer management or research opportunities, but most hakwons are pretty small and conservative when it comes to teaching methods. They are worried about their bottom line, about teacher and student complaints, about losing students to the myriad number of competitors out there. If you actually give a crap about teaching, working at these places can be pretty stressful and disheartening.
I actually love teaching and plan to do it the rest of my life. I was lucky enough to get a job that allows me complete autonomy when it comes to planning the curriculum. I get to work with very smart and motivated students. But these kinds of jobs are rare, I think, and require a lot of luck and a certain kind of resume.
I guess my point is, if you are coming to Korea simply because you are tired of your dead end job in the UK, you are probably going to be disappointed. But if are looking for new experiences in a different culture, and aren't too stressed out about finding the "perfect" job, a few years in Korea might be fun. |
I have some unpleasant news for you: working in Korea is a dead end. Period. Once you get to a university, you've hit the top and the top ain't want it used to be. In the year 2000, I had five months' vacation, free apartment, 16 hours and W2.0m. Then it didn't go up. It stayed there. In fact, I see my old job advertised for less money, more hours and fewer benefits then when I left in 2004.
With a couple of privates, it isn't bad money but not fantastic compared to what a good career or business can make in Canada. But that takes time and many people are impatient; they want big money now like they see on TV. It took me five hard years to live well on private lessons in Vancouver, but now, I am doing very well.
Most of teachers in Korea are very young. Careers take time to build, a lot of time. It took me twenty, yes, twenty years to build up a comfortable living after I left uni. Have you fun but always realise it is temporary. |
Working in Korea is not a dead end for everyone. However, I do agree that it usually takes some time to turn most endeavors into a comfortable living. But that's in any country. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| demonrocks wrote: |
I think many people's idea of teaching in Korea is that it's going to be an extended holiday. I came here expecting to work, and that's what I'm doing.
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What annoys me is people back home (typically friends of my mum) coming out with the 'Well, it sounds like you're having a great time' line. What an unusual thing to say to someone after talking about work. A great time? I'd love to know what these people think I actually do on a day to day basis. |
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jwilks
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| I have never had a bad hagwon job. I've had a few crazy ass bosses, but they've always played things by the book with me. Be confident, know the law, and do your due diligence. Don't sign the first offer that comes along. Research the school. If you get a bad vibe from the interviewer, move along. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| jwilks wrote: |
| I have never had a bad hagwon job. I've had a few crazy ass bosses, but they've always played things by the book with me. Be confident, know the law, and do your due diligence. Don't sign the first offer that comes along. Research the school. If you get a bad vibe from the interviewer, move along. |
Why don't some of you guys post some of your positive experiences
in the green list then?
Why is it that so few are willing to talk about these "good schools"? |
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hacheondo
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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What a bunch of whiners. Hogwons are what you make of them. I had a slightly rough go my first year but that was my fault. Your first year is hard cuz you need to get used to the culture and teaching. If you're a newb teacher, it will be hard no matter where you teach.
You may as well come here if you're stuck in a dead end back home. No worries here. They pay your rent, give you everything you need, and all you gotta do is show up and be professional (even that is rare). I'm American, working at a hogwon is way better than most jobs the US is offering.
If you look at it from their perspective, they're offering you a lot, for an inexperienced worker: full airfare, insurance, pension, rent, and a decent wage. Compared to the situation in the USA, it's a fucking dream come true. In the US, EFL teachers can only find part-time work. In Michigan, colleges pay $22/hr for part-time work, no bennies. The work situation around the world has gotten much worse in the past decade -- here it's about the same for English teachers. |
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BackRow
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Some are, some aren't. My current one is fine, my previous one was awful.
What I've noticed in my time here is that the average NET had never worked a "real" job before, and much of the complaining really comes from them not responding well to actually being expected to put in time and effort into their work. There's is an incredible amount of immaturity and ignorance among us.
But again, some places really are awful and people there have every right to complain. |
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BackRow
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
| demonrocks wrote: |
I think many people's idea of teaching in Korea is that it's going to be an extended holiday. I came here expecting to work, and that's what I'm doing.
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What annoys me is people back home (typically friends of my mum) coming out with the 'Well, it sounds like you're having a great time' line. What an unusual thing to say to someone after talking about work. A great time? I'd love to know what these people think I actually do on a day to day basis. |
Haha, yea this annoys me as well. My sisters don't understand my workweek is no different than it was back home. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| BackRow wrote: |
Some are, some aren't. My current one is fine, my previous one was awful.
What I've noticed in my time here is that the average NET had never worked a "real" job before, and much of the complaining really comes from them not responding well to actually being expected to put in time and effort into their work. There's is an incredible amount of immaturity and ignorance among us.
But again, some places really are awful and people there have every right to complain. |
I agree that for the average NET this is their first real job with real expectations. I used to work in manufacturing with 50 hour work weeks of manual labor. When I came to Korea it was a breeze with the work load. My first school was bad, but it wasn't because of the work. Now, I work at a hagwon where I'm only teaching 25 hours with full control of my classes, elementary to middle. Plus I can leave the teachers room and walk around outside the building if I'm feeling bored or need fresh air. |
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IamCourtney
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| OP, I work for a hagwon, and I like my school, location and apt. I did a lot of research on my school, and took all the negative comments about hagwons with a grain of salt.. All hagwons are not bad, just like all public schools are not peaches and cream. |
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