Korean Job Discussion Forums

[augustine]

Good for you. I didn't say you didn't know anything at all. You ran in on this thread and called me an idiot and said I didn't know anything at all, I invited you to tell me why or enter the discussion and you've refused to so far. I don't know what to say, I believe I've been pretty correct in what I've said but you're welcome to explain how I'm wrong instead of derailing this thread and challenging me to a one on one game.

[warmachinenkorea]

The one thing that's never been said about Lebron, that's been said about MJ and Kobe, is that he's an asshole. MJ and Kobe ignore people and Kobe even said himself if you're not on his level then he's not gonna talk to you. Lebron is a leader and has been asked to be a leader from the time he was 12 years old or younger. MJ wasn't even considered the best player in the NBA until he took the title from Magic and Bird around the time of the Dream Team. Lebron and MJ are different players. Kobe and MJ were different players. MJ was a driver and palyed alot from the FT line and below. Kobe started as a driver but then began ot take more outside shots. If we wanna compare Lebron to anyone then we might compare him toi Magic or Oscar Roberson. He runs the point and has for the most of his career from the forward spot. Jordan might have brought the ball up the floor occasionally but never the amount the Lebrons does. I love Kobe and think he's spectacular but if he brought the ball up there'd be no offense.

MJ is the greatest. His legacy has been so hyped by kids that wear his clothes and shoes and have never seen him play it's a little distorted. He did more for the game of basketball than any player ever will. He is what all great players will be measured by. He played in an era where the illegal defense rule allowed him to do what he did one-on-one. If he palyed in today's game he might've averaged a few more assists and a few less points. I'm friends with a guy on base that reffed in the NBA for 12 seasons and called MJ's first NBA game. He explained to me how the refs protect the stars and how the bigger a star gets the more protection they get. The hand-check rule was changed because of Jordan.

Were you the one that said "Even when he gets a triple-double it's still not ..." A triple double in the NBA, especially a Finals game, is no joke. To discount that is odd. The Spurs are a great organization and probably my second favorite team outside of my Grizz. They're a great team that's sustained greatness for over a decade.

To dog Lebron and the Heat the way you are and expect someone to discuss basketball might be the problem.

Lebron had hardly no help in Cleveland. Now that he's in Miami with help people wanna say he can't do it without help. MJ had another hall of famer for his first 3 championships and one more hall of famer with him for his last 3 championships and had Phil Jackson for all 6. Nobody dogged MJ for that. Lebron hasn't had that much help and people bash him everyday.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=jordami01&y1=2003&p2=jamesle01&y2=2013

Career totals are very similar.

[augustine]

[hogwonguy1979]

I'm now worried about Parker's hamstring, if he can't go or is limited thats going to make a huge difference for SA, that offense runs through him and when he was out late in the season, SA didn't look that good and I'm a huge Spurs fan

[KOREAN_MAN]

Gregg Popovich has a very difficult decision to make for Game 4. If Tony Parker is around 70~80% for Game 4, maybe Parker shouldn't play more than 15 minutes depending on how the game plays out in the first quarter. The Spurs cannot afford to lose Tony Parker. Miami might win Game 4 anyway even with a healthy Tony Parker playing full game. A tough decision for Pop.

I know LeBron's numbers are similar to MJ's numbers. But I'm not talking about his skill and talent. I'm talking about his heart. He's just not the type of a player MJ was. It must be a generation thing because a lot of today's players are soft and weak and not just LBJ. Bird was a killer. Magic was a killer. MJ, Isiah, Patrick Ewing... they were all aggressive players. (Jalen Rose still carries a bat around to protect himself from Patrick Ewing. Go figure.) But today we have guys like Tim Duncan, Chris Bosh, Blake Griffin, Pau Gasol, and LeBron James. The NBA is not what it once was.

Besides, it was much harder to score back in the 80s and 90s. If Michael Jordan averaged 30 points a game back then, he can easily average 40, 50 points today. I agree that LeBron James is more like Scottie Pippen and Magic Johnson. But under today's rules he should be good enough to do a lot more, especially in the finals. His shooting percentage in his finals performances is just horrible. Great players play better in the finals, not worse.

[warmachinenkorea]

[augustine]

You're making a lot of excuses for a guy who's been in the prime of his career for a while now. That being said, Miami's big 3 including LeBron couldn't miss in game 4 and the Spurs played so friggin' sloppy it was difficult for me to watch, even though I think pop threw in the towel too early. Someone needs to smack Ginobili and tell him to stop shooting. Why was he in the game so much!? He was nearly -20 when the game was still close. LeBron was -32 in game 3. That was an unassertive, mistake-ridden fold by San Antonio in a very important game.

[warmachinenkorea]

[augustine]

Ginobili is in about off month number two right now. He shouldn't be jacking up 3's when the ball's in his hands, he should be making plays, driving to the basket and trying to get fouled or driving and kicking it out to better shooters. His primary role is as a play maker these days, not as a shooter. He's been so clumsy with the ball lately.

[warmachinenkorea]

[augustine]

Of course, but that's mostly just semantics. I'm as big a Ginobili fan as they come but he needs to stop airing it out. It's not just my opinion, Pop gets pissed about that regularly these days.

[Jyang486]

If the comparison between Lebron and Jordan, or Lebron and Kobe was based on jump shooting ability, it wouldn't be a contest. Both Jordan and Kobe were/are great jump shooters. Lebron is a good jump shooter, but not a great one. If he has to depend on his jump shot, he will have rough games like game 3. If he attacks and attacks, gets a rhythm from making lay ups or taking free throws, he will be more effective when he takes jump shots like game 4. Every jump shot he took in game 3 was out of rhythm and contested, because the Spurs safely assumed he wouldn't attack the basket. In game 4, they played off him because he attacked so much. In the interview he said it himself that his success in game 4 came from him playing his game, which was being aggressive.

But it should also be noted that he played three subpar games, even though he got a triple double from one, and one solid game, and the Heat and Spurs are tied 2-2. Although Ginobili is a big reason why the Spurs are always title contenders, and normally has a great basketball IQ, he's been very knuckle headed throughout the playoffs. Forcing up too many threes early in the shot clock when Spurs basketball is about taking time off the clock by attacking and swinging to the open man. If he doesn't turn it around, I see this being Heat in 6. Also Splitter has been god awful.

[augustine]

^ That was good insight, jyang. The only point I semi, but not really, take issue with is what you said about Splitter; even though he averaged around 10 PPG, he's so streaky and is definitely no replacement for Duncan. He has improved a lot but he's a bit of a letdown just because of his goofy play. He'll make some good inside passes or place himself in the right spot in the lane, then he'll make some boneheaded turnover down low in the next series. I've never been sure how I feel about that guy, but at 28 now, I wouldn't be surprised if he's back in Europe in a few years. He's never consistent, though he has improved a lot.

Wade played the best he has so far in the playoffs, by far. I really, really hate Wade, since seeing him crying and being strolled off in a wheelchair after dislocating his shoulder (an injury I've had many times). Total loss of respect for the guy from where I stand. But, he went off and took over game 4, unexpectedly.

I think SA will make the adjustments and win game 5, but the game 4 collapse might prove to be detrimental. Miami played as good as they could possibly have played: they were aggressive, made their shots, took it, and earned it. At least their big 3 did. LeBron took over the game in the first half (though Parker equaled LBJ's points before becoming non-existent in the second half), Wade finally was able to play a full game (after likely being shot up before and at half time), and Bosh was very aggressive on the boards and also made his shots. I'm not taking anything away from Miami, they deserved that win and outplayed SA in game 4.

I've made some cocky statements but I've also said that I'll eat my words if the Spurs lose, and that's a definite possibility now. But, we'll see how it goes, I still think they have a good chance.

Regarding LeBron, Warmachine, obviously it's not only me who is dogging the guy. LBJ isn't a clutch performer, you don't have to have college scholarships and coaching experience to determine that. I don't think anyone is disagreeing that he's the most gifted all around player in the game. There have been about 5 contributors to this thread but it seems like all but you agree that he's an underwhelming performer when it comes to crunch time. I don't like Florida, I don't like Miami, I don't like LeBron, Wade, Bosh, or any attempted dynasty formulated around buying championships. I always mute my computer when I catch the half time show at work and hear nothing but Heat, Heat, Heat...

Ten and less years ago, it was Lakers, Lakers, Lakers when I was living in California.... but give me the small market, solid franchise team, whether it's the Spurs or not, any day, over these big market superstar stacked teams that pay for their championships.

Jyang also echoed what I was saying: Manu is forcing shots, he shouldn't be shooting random 3's, it's killing them and taking away points from better three point shooters. He has to stop doing that and start driving for fouls or kicking it out. Manu has generally been solid as they come regarding transition points but he's been killing his own team recently making stupid plays. To me, it's not really about the big three for SA, it's about transition defensive, Duncan continuing to play solid, Parker spreading the floor, and perimeter shooting. Miami overindulging defensively led to the game 3 win. Green on Wade, Leonard on LeBron exclusively from here on out. Flood James and Wade and do what you can to keep them outside, make the Heat role players beat you. I think that's the only solution for SA. Game 6 will likely determine the victor.

[bucheon bum]

I don't know about natural talent and skills, but MJ clearly had more drive and competitive fire than LBJ. He made sure there was hell to pay if he didn't win. A co-worker yesterday pointed out none of the Finals he was in went to 7 games; always 6 or less. Pretty impressive. Kobe is similar in his drive; he just has not always had the level of support that MJ had for most of his career.

And I say that as someone who can't stand Kobe and always rooted against MJ (just because I usually go for the underdog).

[Jyang486]