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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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 Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| Agreed. Since when is it the teacher's job to deduct pension money from their monthly pay. That's the employer's job. It is he who would be fined, not the employee. The owner is in effect stealing from the foreign teacher by avoiding his share of the monthly pension payment. |
Most teachers are registered as independent contractors. The schools do it to commit payroll fraud, all while shifting the blame of the criminality onto the teacher. I have been trying for weeks at the pension, tax, and health insurance offices to be registered as an employee instead of self-employed and have showed them my contract which says I'm an employee 25 times. They say they're very aware of the scam, but there's nothing they'll do about it. My pension balance is zero and I imagine if the pension office shows up at my school, I'll be forced to shoulder 100% of the fines and penalties since I have been registered against my will as self-employed.
dctefl, are you from Washington DC? There are 65 days left on my contract and after that, I'll be leading a protest outside of the South Korean embassy in Washington DC. Would you like to join? It won't be just the two of us. I'll be bringing friends and also hiring protesters. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
| Most teachers are registered as independent contractors. |
Most teachers? Now, I am fully aware that many teachers are, but I wouldn't hazard that it's most teachers. None of the E-2 visa holders employed in EPIK are registered as such. What leads you to believe it's most teachers? I mean, besides the simple fact that dishonesty seems to run rather rampant in the hagweon-boss clique.
| Quote: |
| The schools do it to commit payroll fraud, all while shifting the blame of the criminality onto the teacher. I have been trying for weeks at the pension, tax, and health insurance offices to be registered as an employee instead of self-employed and have showed them my contract which says I'm an employee 25 times. They say they're very aware of the scam, but there's nothing they'll do about it. My pension balance is zero and I imagine if the pension office shows up at my school, I'll be forced to shoulder 100% of the fines and penalties since I have been registered against my will as self-employed. |
Sadly, you'll have to quit beating yourself up at those offices and do what the KTX workers did to rectify the situation when they were not only listed as IC but were actually contracted as IC. The upshot of it was the court declared that regardless of the term used in the contract, the facts of how the workers are managed and controlled prevail. You'll need to get a court order to get those various offices to pay attention to you.
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| dctefl, are you from Washington DC? There are 65 days left on my contract and after that, I'll be leading a protest outside of the South Korean embassy in Washington DC. Would you like to join? It won't be just the two of us. I'll be bringing friends and also hiring protesters. |
Please let me know via PM when you plan on doing that. I have more than a few relatives the Tri-State area. I'm sure some of them would be more than happy to join in. |
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dctefl
Joined: 18 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the input everyone.
Today I was taken asked to sign a new contract with the new school's address. I was allowed to read it front to back and it matched the original I signed, just with a different address. I was then taken to Immigration where this and another form were handed over, then T got finger printed.
Be interested to see how this goes. I have resolved that since I need the ARC to do anything, I will at the very least wait for it while working. This gives me time to improve my teaching and learn more about what is going on, so all nearly 2 weeks to see how things go.
Cali, thanks for your input. However, could you please stop posting now as your input has basically turned into rants rather then actual tangible assistance. Thanks for the interest, good luck with everything.
If anyone else has more input, similiar experiences or ideas, I'd greatly appreciate them all. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| dctefl wrote: |
Thanks for the input everyone.
Today I was taken asked to sign a new contract with the new school's address. I was allowed to read it front to back and it matched the original I signed, just with a different address. I was then taken to Immigration where this and another form were handed over, then T got finger printed.
Be interested to see how this goes. I have resolved that since I need the ARC to do anything, I will at the very least wait for it while working. This gives me time to improve my teaching and learn more about what is going on, so all nearly 2 weeks to see how things go.
Cali, thanks for your input. However, could you please stop posting now as your input has basically turned into rants rather then actual tangible assistance. Thanks for the interest, good luck with everything.
If anyone else has more input, similiar experiences or ideas, I'd greatly appreciate them all. |
There was a lot of panic and nonsense posted above about your ARC situation. There is no problem when you are hired by a school with multiple locations with regard to the ARC. It is a simple matter of paperwork to get the right location recorded on your ARC when registering at Immigration. It doesn't matter what address was on your application. There is a time window to do this, just as there is a time window when changing schools after a contract or during a contract with an LOR. This is perfectly legal.
Ease of transfer between locations is one of the advantage that chain schools have in managing their staff and keeping enough teachers in every location.
OTOH. You have benn shafted as far as the new location and how awful the conditions are ...
| dctefl wrote: |
So with that all out there, any ideas WTF to do? It's been 10 days and I'm totally overwhelmed. My options seem to be:
1) Knuckle down and hope it gets better (unlikely)
2) Midnight run (really don't want to do this, won't do this unless the situation gets worse, if that could happen)
3) Ask for transfer to another school (preferably the one I agreed to go to)
4) Ask for letter of release and try to find another job, either now or in 6 months (the difference is whether I get my airfare, but at this point I just want to learn how to teach without this crazy atmosphere.)
Any ideas/similar experiences/advice? All input appreciated. |
Your best option is to do your best for a while and learn all you can. Try to get through a few months, get paid, and save up. This assumes that you will get paid properly, on time, with all the benefits.
Follow your own plan in the following order: 1, 3, 4, 2.
Hope that things get better - sometimes they do. Meanwhile, show that you are a devoted, hard working, sincere employee. Do the best you can; learn all you can. If you're a decent teacher, they are more likely to transfer you to a different location if you can't stand your current location any longer.
If you need to change, and they refuse to transfer you, there is still the option of a letter of release and a new job. Since no school has to give a letter of release - it's best to be on their good side. The worse your attitude or performance, the less likely it is that you'll get an LOR.
Finally, as a last resort, you can always quit and leave at any time. But without an LOR, apparently under the current rules you have to wait until your contract expires to get a new job. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| Agreed. Since when is it the teacher's job to deduct pension money from their monthly pay. That's the employer's job. It is he who would be fined, not the employee. The owner is in effect stealing from the foreign teacher by avoiding his share of the monthly pension payment. |
Most teachers are registered as independent contractors. The schools do it to commit payroll fraud, all while shifting the blame of the criminality onto the teacher. I have been trying for weeks at the pension, tax, and health insurance offices to be registered as an employee instead of self-employed and have showed them my contract which says I'm an employee 25 times. They say they're very aware of the scam, but there's nothing they'll do about it. My pension balance is zero and I imagine if the pension office shows up at my school, I'll be forced to shoulder 100% of the fines and penalties since I have been registered against my will as self-employed.
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Most E2 hogwan teachers are registered as employees and get the proper pay, benefits, health insurance and pension. There is also a large group who sign contracts that spell out that the teacher will be working as an IC and not get pension and health insurance from their school. Legally, of course, they have to enroll themselves for Pension and Health Ins.
Another group is hire with contracts that don't use the term "employee" and are unclear and misleading.
You are in a fourth group. Those who have been defrauded. The problem for you is that you have been legally registered as an IC for tax, pension and health insurance purposes. Since it is legal for you to be an E2 teacher and an IC, and since there is no requirement that businesses show a contract or prove that an IC is an IC, your status is legal as far as the Tax Office, Pension Office and Health Insurance Office are concerned.
Because of your contract, this was an act of fraud, but the party injured by this act of fraud is YOU. The criminal and civil fraud has been committed against you, so it is up to you to take legal action. Now it should be that the bureaucrats in these government offices will jump into action when you show them your contract, but unfortuantely, life is full of shoulds. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
Sadly, you'll have to quit beating yourself up at those offices and do what the KTX workers did to rectify the situation when they were not only listed as IC but were actually contracted as IC. The upshot of it was the court declared that regardless of the term used in the contract, the facts of how the workers are managed and controlled prevail.quote]
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I see that you didn't understand the facts of the KTX case. This may explain why many don't get the fact that it has nothing to do with individuals working as ICs and nothing to do with teachers or E2 teachers working as ICs nor did it change anything.
In the KTX case there were no workers working as ICs. Every worker was an employee.
What happened in the KTX case was that KTX had a bunch of high paid union workers working directly for the parent corporation. They wanted to get around the union and hire lower paid workers.
So, KTX created a wholly owned subsidary. This subsidary corporation hired itself out as an Independent Contractor providing services to the parent corporation. The workers at the subsidary were employees with all the benefits. However, they were not paid according to, and were paid significantly less than, the union contract.
Now, if an independent business, not a subsidary of KTX, had been hired as an Independent Contractor and its employees had been paid less than the KTX union employees, there would have been no issue. Likewise, if the KTX subsidary corporation had provided significant services to other businesses, then again there would have been no issue.
However, in the KTX case, the subsidiary was created only to circumvent its union contracts, so the court ruled against KTX. They were required to apply the same union rules agreed to by the parent to this subsidary.
The case has nothing to do with individuals working as ICs in Korea. |
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dctefl
Joined: 18 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Thanks ontheway. Very reasonable and well delivered advice.
Have been told I'll get the ARC at the start of July, probably first or second week. Gives me time to see how things are and investigate options 3 & 4 further, particularly as the wording in the contract will determine what fallout I may have to deal with, i.e. losing airfare, when I can hand in notice etc.
I expect to be posting more on this situation later. Thanks everyone for their insight. |
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dctefl
Joined: 18 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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So 3 months have passed since my original post. Some developments have occurred since then and it'd be good to get any insight or ideas about them.
1. As expected, there was a mass exodus of the foreign staff. When I came here I was the newest of 6, now I am the second most senior. Scary stuff. An interesting bit of info about the new teachers:
As experienced hands know you should always ask to speak to a foreign teacher at a school before you agree to sign. I had done this at the location I was supposed to go to, then the school change happened etc. The new teachers currently coming in are NOT being allowed to speak to an onsite teacher and on at least one occasion they were put in contact with a Korean! So, just to provide a general warning to new people:
*** DO NOT sign anything until you speak to a FOREIGN teacher, either in an email or on the phone.***
This was one of the golden rules when I started my job hunt and I've found it troubling that people are not getting to talk to a localized teacher and yet still sign contracts.
2. My ARC was processed with no problems. A quick bit of paperwork at Immigration when I was getting my fingerprints scanned and that was that. So for anyone having similar concerns, do not worry, as ontheway kindly pointed out, it is a simple fix.
3. The general work situation has remained bad. The director is incompetent, the Korean Teachers are actually enjoying their own mass exodus which we foreigners are not meant to know about, but ways and means have allowed some of us to learn otherwise. Anyway, to make it worse, the remaining foreign teachers are, mostly but not all, complete f***ing tools who don't want to be teachers, are here for the money and weekends. That's not me being mean, that's actually VERBATIM from one of them (scarily the now most senior foreign teacher...) It was actually quite disgusting when they said it. Anyone ever had a situation where even their foreign teacher colleagues are useless? How do you handle that chestnut?
4. I've become quite the pariah. I admit I have struggled to deal with the screwjob, the ridiculous work environment (would take too long to explain my gripes with it), the departure of the previous foreign staff who I actually liked and the general BS and lack of solidity in any workplace. I am very isolated and don't quite know how to fix anything. I resolved to keep my head down and just work on my focus which remains learning how to teach, and as a consequence I've become quite isolated "He takes it too seriously", if you will. (On a personal note, of course I take it seriously, there are kids involved.) Anyone ever had a similar experience?
So that's a little vent of things for my own benefit both for letting off steam and for seeking advice. Any and all ideas very welcome, hope you are all enjoying better situations. |
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War Eagle
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| dctefl wrote: |
| Anyway, to make it worse, the remaining foreign teachers are, mostly but not all, complete f***ing tools who don't want to be teachers, are here for the money and weekends. That's not me being mean, that's actually VERBATIM from one of them (scarily the now most senior foreign teacher...) It was actually quite disgusting when they said it. Anyone ever had a situation where even their foreign teacher colleagues are useless? How do you handle that chestnut? |
My first year here I worked at a very nice, expensive chain hagwon in a very upscale neighborhood in Gangnam. They employed 11 foreign teachers. 8 of the 11 were only "here for the money and the weekend" (The other 3 are still in Korea after 5 years. I'm one of em). I'm not sure what you expect of most hagwon employees, but I think 90% or more of them don't have any plans to stay in Korea longer than a year, want to party in the meantime and could give a rat's ass about thier jobs.
(I'm not saying they weren't nice guys and gals. We had a hell of a first year together partying our asses off  ) |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I've become quite the pariah. I admit I have struggled to deal with the screwjob, the ridiculous work environment (would take too long to explain my gripes with it), the departure of the previous foreign staff who I actually liked and the general BS and lack of solidity in any workplace. I am very isolated and don't quite know how to fix anything. I resolved to keep my head down and just work on my focus which remains learning how to teach, and as a consequence I've become quite isolated "He takes it too seriously", if you will. (On a personal note, of course I take it seriously, there are kids involved.) Anyone ever had a similar experience? |
Your heart seems in the right place but if the "holier than thou" attitude you expressed in your last post leaks into the way you deal with the other teachers then you're going to become even more of an outcast.
I tend to keep myself to myself in work these days too, but I force myself to go out for a couple of beers with some of the lads. They talk about hockey and stuff that bores me, but it keeps up the camaraderie.
Try not to be too judgmental and bite your tongue if you ever feel the need to say something critical of another teacher. Apart from that, keep trying your best with your teaching. Good luck! |
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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| dctefl wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Who told you this? If it's not Immigration, it's a load of hogwash. Your visa is not "apparently tied to the head office of the chain." It's not tied to the head office in any manner whatsoever unless you were hired specifically to work at and only at that head office. Your boss is a liar. |
The recruiter told me when I told him I was worried about it. You cry BS. Any more opinions on this? I paid for my ARC today and will bring my passport in tomorrow, so find out soon I guess.
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The recruiter is lying to you. It is illegal. It's not an opinion, this is 100% fact. The contract that they sent in to get you your visa (issuance number, etc) INCLUDING the specific branch is what is your legal location to teach at. Anything else is illegal. The recruiter is saying whatever he can to get you to agree and assuming that you don't know. Your recruiter just wants their fee from the school. The school is the one paying the recruiter. Refuse to work at this new location and keep replying that it is illegal, and when they say it isn't, say, well, let me call immigration and check, then. This new branch is bad news, as you probably already figured out.
Edit: didn't see that the OP was three months ago. Whoops. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Funniest outcome I ever saw was when a hagwon hired a guy and wouldn't pay his full promised salary... that guy sold everything in his apartment on Craigslist (belonged to the school), along with a few items (computers) he'd "borrowed" after convincing the secretary the boss was letting him take them overnight to do some "English software upgrades."
Then he pulled a runner.
Criminal, but seeing as he was being scammed by the owner, all I could do was laugh. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| littlelisa wrote: |
| dctefl wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Who told you this? If it's not Immigration, it's a load of hogwash. Your visa is not "apparently tied to the head office of the chain." It's not tied to the head office in any manner whatsoever unless you were hired specifically to work at and only at that head office. Your boss is a liar. |
The recruiter told me when I told him I was worried about it. You cry BS. Any more opinions on this? I paid for my ARC today and will bring my passport in tomorrow, so find out soon I guess.
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The recruiter is lying to you. It is illegal. It's not an opinion, this is 100% fact. The contract that they sent in to get you your visa (issuance number, etc) INCLUDING the specific branch is what is your legal location to teach at. Anything else is illegal. The recruiter is saying whatever he can to get you to agree and assuming that you don't know. Your recruiter just wants their fee from the school. The school is the one paying the recruiter. Refuse to work at this new location and keep replying that it is illegal, and when they say it isn't, say, well, let me call immigration and check, then. This new branch is bad news, as you probably already figured out.
Edit: didn't see that the OP was three months ago. Whoops. |
Truth.
Also to add for any other newbs coming, the recruiter has 0% loyalty to you, only to the one that pays them. After you get placed (on a plane and in Korea) they will not really help you, as it means more work for them. |
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:40 am Post subject: |
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To the OP
I certainly understand where you are coming from- you feel like you are the only one working, while your co-workers are "working". While living in Korea, I learned that adjusting to several personality types was essential. Just do it! Everyone isn't really interested in teaching, the most difficult part of living there is you don't have a choice pick of friendships. If they aren't doing something illegal, don't make them hate you because you feel differently about the workplace. If you have a gripe against your employer, they can be there to back you up should you need it. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| littlelisa wrote: |
| dctefl wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Who told you this? If it's not Immigration, it's a load of hogwash. Your visa is not "apparently tied to the head office of the chain." It's not tied to the head office in any manner whatsoever unless you were hired specifically to work at and only at that head office. Your boss is a liar. |
The recruiter told me when I told him I was worried about it. You cry BS. Any more opinions on this? I paid for my ARC today and will bring my passport in tomorrow, so find out soon I guess.
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The recruiter is lying to you. It is illegal. It's not an opinion, this is 100% fact. The contract that they sent in to get you your visa (issuance number, etc) INCLUDING the specific branch is what is your legal location to teach at. Anything else is illegal. The recruiter is saying whatever he can to get you to agree and assuming that you don't know. Your recruiter just wants their fee from the school. The school is the one paying the recruiter. Refuse to work at this new location and keep replying that it is illegal, and when they say it isn't, say, well, let me call immigration and check, then. This new branch is bad news, as you probably already figured out.
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^ Wrong. ^
There is nothing illegal about being hired to work at one location and then, after arrival, working at another location for the same employer. You may not like the new location, it could be a breach of your contract if the possibility of alternate locations was not mentioned and you are somehow forced to change unwillingly - a civil case - but it's not illegal.
Immigration has paperwork that is simple and easy to allow such a transfer. As long as all the legal documents are properly filed in a timely manner - and Immi gives you two weeks after making the switch - then there is no problem. The paperwork can be filed at the same time that you register for your ARC. Painless. Easy. Fill out the Immi form for change of workplace. Perfectly legal. |
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