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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: |
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[quote="No_hite_pls"]
| some waygug-in wrote: |
| No_hite_pls wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Remember that $15,000 in the U.s. is not like 15.000 in other countries , some nations there would be taxes of almost 50%. |
There is no where in the industrialized world were a person making 15,000 USD will be taxed at 50%. Most countries have progressive tax rates.
Actually 50% is not far off the mark for Canada.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html
Fed tax = 15% up to 43,000
Prov tax + 11%
GST + 5%
PST + 5%
When you add in your EI deductions, CPP, workman's comp etc.
you are very close to 50% tax.
It may not all be called "tax" exactly, but it amounts to the same thing.
And people wonder why there are so many Canadians in Korea.  |
Wow, buddy there is so little truth in your post. I like how you put Fed tax = 15% up to 43,000 without saying that 15% has to be on taxable income. The first 11,000 is not taxable. So the 15 % tax would only apply to 4,000 dollars even with no deductions. You would have 4,000 taxed at 15% or 600 dollars federal tax.
Also, You get ALL you GST and PST back if you only made 15,000 a year.
When my wife and I lived in Canada for year (my wife is Canadian BTW). We made 28,000 CAD combined. Not much, I know. We paid 4% tax after deductions this 4% is including our payment to EI and CPP we had no kids at the time.
At an income of 15,000, your tax rate in Canada would be 3%! This without any dependents.
S--t my sister in law make 45,000 in Canada and pays no tax, In fact, the Canadian government gives her money, because she has two kids. |
Well, I guess the bonehead award goes to me then. 
You're right about the 1st 11,000 , but I certainly don't get the tax breaks
you speak of.
A single male gets a lot fewer deductions than a married couple or a
single mom .
I've never heard of anyone getting PST refunded, if it's happening I sure don't know about it.
(If you're not Canadian, and have moved back out of Canada...I suppose)
Since my stint in Korea, the gov't (in its infinite wisdom) has decided that
I shouldn't get GST refunded either.
If there are other things wrong with my thinking, please advise. I need
to be straightened out it seems.
So you're saying if I earned 15,000, I should be "livin' hi on the hog".
When you start figuring in things like rent, vehicles, insurance, gas
(and these are things you need just to get a job)
that first 11,000 doesn't go very far at all.
Last edited by some waygug-in on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Americans blame 'government welfare' for persistent pove |
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Almost all those stats support my point of poor people who should not be reproducing reproducing being a major contributor (probably the main one) to poverty in America. Why is there so much child poverty in America? Because losers who shouldn't be having children are having them.
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| Back in the 1970s, about one out of every 50 Americans was on food stamps. Today, close to one out of every six Americans is on food stamps. Even more shocking is the fact that more than one out of every four children in the United States is enrolled in the food stamp program. |
Don't you think stuff like the above has more to do with the expansion of government handouts than rising poverty? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Americans blame 'government welfare' for persistent pove |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Back in the 1970s, about one out of every 50 Americans was on food stamps. Today, close to one out of every six Americans is on food stamps. Even more shocking is the fact that more than one out of every four children in the United States is enrolled in the food stamp program. |
Don't you think stuff like the above has more to do with the expansion of government handouts than rising poverty? |
Guess when the lowest rate of poverty was in the USA? 1973. Here is a graph of the poverty rate in the USA:
Graph compliments of NPR
As you can see, the number of children below the poverty rate has shot up, while adults between 18 and 64 in poverty is also higher now than in the 70s. The number of eldery has decreased. Why? Probably because of the expansion of medicare (another government hand-out, uh oh!).
So NO, I do not think it has to do with the expansion of government "hand outs".
Instead I think it is due to:
1. Decreased regulation of the financial industry in the late 90s, early '00s that contribued to the real estate bubble and financial crash in '08.
2. The loss of manufacturing jobs here in the USA.
3. Our poor public education system (yes, I know, there are some great public schools, I'm generalizing).
4. Our super expensive health care system. If you have any serious ilnness and don't have great insurance, you're financially screwed.
Those are just 4 factors off the top of my head. There are others of course. Food stamps are an effect and not a cause of US poverty (obviously there are some bums out there who are the exception). Who the hell WANTS to be on food stamps? No one I know... |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Another cause: the high cost of higher education. While the necessity of having a college degree has shot up, so has the cost. Just read this in the NYT:
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| In 1940, University of Pennsylvania School of Engineering tuition and fees were $420 per year. The federal minimum wage was $0.40 per hour. Today the tuition and fees are around $41,000, the federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. An 18-fold increase in the minimum wage, a 98-fold increase in tuition and fees. |
Good luck paying your way through college!
And yes, UPenn is an Ivy League school, but that still gives you an idea of how college has become increasingly unaffordable.
The "system" is increasingly against the poor, that's the truth of the matter. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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You're forgetting about all the financial assistance poor people get (simply for being poor).
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| It currently ensures that students with family household incomes under $65,000 �have no expected parental contribution for their education.� Students with family incomes of up to $150,000 �will have an average expected parent contribution of 10 percent or less of their income.� |
Poor people can go to Harvard for free.
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| Now, families with normal assets and income up to $65,000 will not be required to pay any tuition. Previously only families with normal assets and income up to $60,000 were not required to pay tuition. |
Now look at U Penn, the example you gave. The school will pay most of the tuition is the family is not rich.
http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/costs-financial-aid/how-aid-is-determined
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| Penn financial aid packages do not include loans, which means students are able to graduate debt-free. |
http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/costs-financial-aid/financial-aid-at-penn |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler, your envy towards the poor is unappealing. Must you shove our noses in your ignorance and grotesque piggishness? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Since you/your friend got pwned on the facts, now you must resort to insults. Pretty banal and childish to attempt some personal attacks rather than trying to articulate a cogent thought. BTW, what I wrote in the OP is not just me; it's majority American opinion. U mad?
Record-low support for affirmative action, poll says
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/06/12/record-low-support-for-affirmative-action-poll-says/
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| Nearly six out of 10 whites oppose affirmative action. |
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| Support has been slowly declining over the past 20 years. In 1991, 61% of Americans supported it. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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When the US economy picks up less and less people will needs Welfare.
Your assumption that welfare assistance harms people has merit but this is much outweighed by the economic and social benefits of keeping those families in the workforce and eventually becoming productive members of society.
The idea that you can our off all welfare will have positive effects in terms of incentives to join society and the workforce or education faster but you have to weigh that against the real possibility of creating lawless desolate sections of society that become large ghettos and who will STILL have babies and could become America's next Arab Spring.
Effective Welfare needs to be targeted, and help people to eventually become productive members of society.
If you step back and think what are you going to do with all those people who don't fit into your non-welfare society? Soup kitchens and charities don't provide jobs or meaningful life paths.
increasing and entrenched inequality will make this non-welfare underclass grow. Charity Aid doesn't solve their problems. Neither does food stamps but what does is an economy with opportunities and education and a chance to get it.
When you create a class of citizens that grow up in the ghetto...they will not make it to Harvard no matter how free it is or how many movies you watch. Because you have stacked society completely in your favor and that of your kids mate. It's about opportunities and that's what the next generation needs. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Americans blame 'government welfare' for persistent pove |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
Guess when the lowest rate of poverty was in the USA? 1973. Here is a graph of the poverty rate in the USA:
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Wasn't 1973 right after Pie town or slightly inside it? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Critics argue that preferring that babies be born not addicted to drugs or otherwise disabled is a manifestation of an able-bodied supremacist notion of the value of human life.[13] |
Wow. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| Saying welfare creates poverty is like saying medicine creates disease. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| So Fox, you agree with the program? |
What, paying people to volunteer for sterilization? Of course I agree with it: it keeps children from being born into desperate circumstances, and since sterilization is generally reversible, a potential parent who completely turns their life around and both wants and can afford children can simply pay to have it reversed.
The irony is that the same people who oppose this doubtlessly support free birth control and abortion rights. They do not want you to pay a drug addicted woman to be sterilized, but they are fine if she goes and gets an abortion every year, which is far more costly and traumatic. It's looney. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| Saying welfare creates poverty is like saying medicine creates disease. |
While I am on your side in principle here, given misapplication of antibiotics can exacerbate the dangers of a disease in the long term by breeding antibiotic-resistant bacteria, is that really the analogy you want to use? |
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