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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
Also, it IS reasonable to teach kids that constant uncontrolled screaming is unacceptable, just like you can teach them to use inside/outside voices. If the parents would just tell them "Hey, quiet down! We're in a public place." it would make a difference as the behavior becomes a habit, but seems like most parents don't put any check on that behavior. |
Koreans are the best parents in the world.
I've heard this said many times.
I think the local concept of good parenting is letting your kid behave however they want. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
Also, it IS reasonable to teach kids that constant uncontrolled screaming is unacceptable, just like you can teach them to use inside/outside voices. If the parents would just tell them "Hey, quiet down! We're in a public place." it would make a difference as the behavior becomes a habit, but seems like most parents don't put any check on that behavior. |
Koreans are the best parents in the world.
I've heard this said many times.
I think the local concept of good parenting is letting your kid behave however they want. |
That's strange. I haven't heard that said. I've heard it said (correctly or not) that Korean parents spend the most $$$ on their kids, but I've never heard this one before.
I'm all for enforcing noise policies. From 10:00pm to 7 or 8am, I think people in close quarters should be very mindful of those living around them.
But are you guys seriously wanting to head down to playgrounds and tell kids to stop yelling while they're playing?? Shoot, when was the last time you were in a school in North America? During recess? I went to Van a month back and was playing with my daughter in a local playground - then recess happened! The kids rolled out of those doors, and the place was a madhouse. A fun madhouse, but there definitely wasn't a whole lot of "Please children, keep your voices down."
Just like people are complaining a bit of the law goes overboard (in the OP)- so do a few posters in this thread, IMO. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
Also, it IS reasonable to teach kids that constant uncontrolled screaming is unacceptable, just like you can teach them to use inside/outside voices. If the parents would just tell them "Hey, quiet down! We're in a public place." it would make a difference as the behavior becomes a habit, but seems like most parents don't put any check on that behavior. |
Koreans are the best parents in the world.
I've heard this said many times.
I think the local concept of good parenting is letting your kid behave however they want. |
Seems to be.
The other thing is that the behavior has to bother the parent in the first place for them to say anything, and maybe they just aren't that bothered by the screaming, stomping, and door slamming, as they seem to do it almost as much as the kids.
And with the shoddy thin-walled construction, the door slams are like sonic booms every few minutes.
When I was a kid, I'd have been reamed a new one if I slammed the door or screamed at the top of my lungs right outside the window. And if I ever woke up mom and dad from a nap it'd be hell to pay. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
Also, it IS reasonable to teach kids that constant uncontrolled screaming is unacceptable, just like you can teach them to use inside/outside voices. If the parents would just tell them "Hey, quiet down! We're in a public place." it would make a difference as the behavior becomes a habit, but seems like most parents don't put any check on that behavior. |
Koreans are the best parents in the world.
I've heard this said many times.
I think the local concept of good parenting is letting your kid behave however they want. |
That's strange. I haven't heard that said. I've heard it said (correctly or not) that Korean parents spend the most $$$ on their kids, but I've never heard this one before.
I'm all for enforcing noise policies. From 10:00pm to 7 or 8am, I think people in close quarters should be very mindful of those living around them.
But are you guys seriously wanting to head down to playgrounds and tell kids to stop yelling while they're playing?? Shoot, when was the last time you were in a school in North America? During recess? I went to Van a month back and was playing with my daughter in a local playground - then recess happened! The kids rolled out of those doors, and the place was a madhouse. A fun madhouse, but there definitely wasn't a whole lot of "Please children, keep your voices down."
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IN a playground, kids will be kids of course, so that's to be expected.
But kids don't have to be THAT consistently loud IF they are taught early enough, even during play. Speaking level, tone, and behavior can be shaped to some extent IF the parents want to push it, and this can transfer to the kids. If you have loud parents, chances are, you are going to be loud too.
I think you're comparing apples to oranges in this case, where you're comparing North American kids to Korean kids, which frankly, probably win in terms of sheer shrillness, decibels, and frequency. It would be interesting to have an A/B audio test just to see though...
Add to that the parents are right there with them sometimes and don't seem to mind the constant blood curdling, unchecked screams that would probably drive the average western parent into a frenzy after 3 minutes.
I taught uni in Seoul and even they consistently screamed at the top of their lungs like kindy kids, right outside the buildings and in the hallways AS IF it was the playground. I don't remember anyone screaming like that at university back home.
Another example... vacationing in Thailand and there was a massive pool at our hotel filled with all kinds of families and kids from all over. It was a pool party with a bar and kids playing in the shallow end. Loud, but not insane. Then the Koreans came back from their daily tours and their kids jumped in the pool and it went from loud to INSANE. Constant screams.
Drove just about everyone else away, including other Asian families (Thai and Chinese). The noise went on until 11pm even though the pool closed at 9pm, as the Koreans seemed to have no intention of telling their kids to quiet down or get out of the pool at closing time.
So are they louder than average? Hmm... could be. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| I've often wondered how much of the nonsense that goes on here is a result of undiagnosed sleep deprivation. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:06 am Post subject: |
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well, what can I say - you use adjectives like shrill, insane, and "at the top of their lungs".
I'm guessing you don't have kids- am I right? Let me help ya with a little secret - kids (and people in general) cannot yell "at the top of their lungs" for all that long. Simply put, those little tykes are just as human as us, and they'll go raw if they do what you're describing.
Now, I'm NOT saying that ppl aren't loud here. Nor am I saying that kids aren't loud here - but I very much think you are exaggerating. I too lived in an apt complex with lots of playgrounds in it - and guess what - it was pretty quiet. Too quiet, in fact. Many times I'd wonder why there weren't more kids running around playing (hogwon culture).
If I was to believe all of your post, I'd think it was a constant madhouse here - with people running around constantly screaming in windows.
I can also tell of anecdotal evidence of loud Filipino kids on vacation, or loud Chinese, or loud Americans. or... well, you get the point. Kids can be seriously loud. The more of them there are, the louder they often get. This seems especially true in regards to people who don't have kids - baby crying on the plane... seems to be far louder to people who don't have babies. Those that have been through it will often shrug it off.
But, hey - it looks like you've already made up your mind - Koreans are LOUD! I doubt anything I say will give you any pause. Just remember, it was YOU who brought up the noise they make in playgrounds.
| Mix1 wrote: |
Lived in a place once that was packed with families with small kids. The kids would play outside and just shriek and scream bloody murder at the top of their lungs and it would echo off the surrounding buildings, amplifying it. It sounded like a mix of Lotte World and a scream scene from a horror movie. It would last from 4pm to 11pm on weekdays, and all day on weekends.
Nobody EVER seemed to mind or tell them to quiet down, and in fact the parents would often picnic in the playground too where the decibels must have been in the hundreds. No problem whatsoever for them. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
well, what can I say - you use adjectives like shrill, insane, and "at the top of their lungs".
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The adjectives may be colorful, but it doesn't mean it's inaccurate or exaggeration. I can see parents reading what I wrote and getting defensive though.
I'm describing a certain apartment area in Seoul. If you want to visit there and compare, let me know. I give you 15 minutes before you start using the same adjectives. 
Or maybe not, maybe it's music to your ears. Who knows? Maybe your kids yell like that too and you think it's just awesome. Different perspective I guess.
| Quote: |
| I'm guessing you don't have kids- am I right? Let me help ya with a little secret - kids (and people in general) cannot yell "at the top of their lungs" for all that long. Simply put, those little tykes are just as human as us, and they'll go raw if they do what you're describing. |
Thanks for the 'secret'. 'Top of the lungs' meant LOUD here, that's pretty obvious. Even if you want to take the term as literal, it's still not too far off in terms of decibels and they do push the limits.
You're right, I don't have kids, but if/when I do, they will NOT be allowed to yell LOUDLY (better term for you?) in or around the house, and if they go all bats**t screamathon, even while in the playground, I'll be telling them to quiet down if I'm near, and I'd hope more parents would do the same, even to kids that aren't theirs. Would make the world a better place. Kids need limits, and that applies to screaming.
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| Now, I'm NOT saying that ppl aren't loud here. |
That's good. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:35 am Post subject: |
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I'm not saying that kids don't need limits. I shush my kid in the theater. I tell her to talk quietly on the bus. But I don't chase her down on the playground and tell her to stop doing what she's doing. THAT'S the bit that struck me strange. NOT that people aren't rudely loud in areas they shouldn't be, but that you were complaining about kids playing at a playground.
But sure, shoot me a PM and if it's close we can swing by there, have a coffee, and watch the mayhem ensue. Chances are though, I'd still put money on you exaggerating. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:50 am Post subject: |
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One man's exaggeration is another's understatement.
I'd say it's getting louder, not due to kids, who are no doubt spoiled by western standards, etc., but because of the earphones so many are constantly listening to.
And I know exactly what the above poster is saying about university students--the halls between classes remind me of what it was like in junior high. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| I've often wondered how much of the nonsense that goes on here is a result of undiagnosed sleep deprivation. |
Good call. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Children are people too. They have the right to be kids.
My neighbor above me has 2 young children who like to play. This is normal behavior for children. They make noise but I try to be understanding. I never complain because nothing will change anyway and it would only piss my neighbor off. I also have young kids and I appreciate the patience shown by the people below me. Not everyone is intolerant of children. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| I'm not saying that kids don't need limits. I shush my kid in the theater. I tell her to talk quietly on the bus. But I don't chase her down on the playground and tell her to stop doing what she's doing. THAT'S the bit that struck me strange. NOT that people aren't rudely loud in areas they shouldn't be, but that you were complaining about kids playing at a playground. |
Oops, now YOU are exaggerating. No, I was complaining about the NOISE, which consists of near non-stop high-pitched screams that echo off the surrounding buildings. I'm not against playgrounds, but if they are right next to apartments it's too noisy.
I never said anything about chasing kids down on the playground, that's YOUR exaggeration too. Although if they did do that, I wouldn't be against it if it kept things quieter. Seen and not heard, you know?
| Quote: |
| But sure, shoot me a PM and if it's close we can swing by there, have a coffee, and watch the mayhem ensue. Chances are though, I'd still put money on you exaggerating. |
As atwood said: "One man's exaggeration is another's understatement."
I'm imagining two people at a playground discussing the noise levels and arguing over the meaning of adjectives to see if one was exaggerating about the description. Sounds like a Seinfeld episode.
I think you have a problem with the descriptive adjectives I used, in which case I can just sum the place up as: IT'S PRETTY FREAKING LOUD. FULL STOP.
You might be right at home with the whines, cries, and screams (the first 50-60 anyway), but I'd be in agony, and we'd never agree on it anyway.
"That's not a scream, that's a light yell. Also you said 'constant' and I'm recording an average of a 3 second interval between those yells. You exaggerated!"
Whee, sounds fun!
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Well, dismiss it if ya want. No skin off my nose. It's obvious you were exaggerating to make your point. So be it.
If you want to complain about the noise kids make at playgrounds, you're one step away from shaking your cane and yelling get off my lawn! |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| I've often wondered how much of the nonsense that goes on here is a result of undiagnosed sleep deprivation. |
Yeah, or lack of consistent physical exercise.
When I see those middle schoolers finally get out of class at 8pm they tend to go absolutely nuts. The level of screaming and general letting off of steam is abnormal. Because they've been sitting around for too long. Healthy body, healthy mind. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| I've often wondered how much of the nonsense that goes on here is a result of undiagnosed sleep deprivation. |
Yeah, or lack of consistent physical exercise.
When I see those middle schoolers finally get out of class at 8pm they tend to go absolutely nuts. The level of screaming and general letting off of steam is abnormal. Because they've been sitting around for too long. Healthy body, healthy mind. |
And here I figured he was referring to the nonsense that goes on here...at Dave's. |
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