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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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 Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| why does anyone give world traveler the time of day anymore? he's obviously half brain-dead and creates flamebait discussions that are just asking for arguments. |
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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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No doubt as true today as over 100 years ago.
“Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed.”
- Herman Melville (1819-1891) |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Just as recently as 6 years ago, did welfare almost drive the economy into a recession and raise unemployment increasing poverty? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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The recession (late 2007 to mid 2009) is what is keeping people in poverty? Are you serious? During that time and now, people all over the world were and are desperate to get into the United States.
Some people earlier in this thread said I don't understand poverty and haven't experienced poverty.
False. I worked with poor people in the United States (both kids and adults). They were some of the laziest people I have ever met. Why were they so lazy? Probably they got it from their parents. Immigrants are the exception though. They came from poorer countries and were poor through no fault of their own. Parents tell their children about the value of hard work, and demonstrate it through their actions.
Many disability recipients admit they could work
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Recipients of federal disability checks often admit that they are capable of working but cannot or will not find a job, that those closest to them tell them they should be working, and that working to get off the disability rolls is not among their goals.
More baffling, most have never received significant medical treatment and not seen a doctor about their condition in the last year, even though medical problems are the official reason they don't work. Those who acknowledge they're on disability because they can't find a job say they make little effort to find one, according to a Washington Examiner analysis of federal survey results. |
http://washingtonexaminer.com/exography-many-disability-recipients-admit-they-could-work/article/2533626
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* Returning to work is not a goal for 71 percent of the SSDI recipients, 60 percent of the SSI recipients.
* 75 percent of the SSDI recipients don't see themselves returning to work within five years, 65 percent of the SSI recipients don't.
* 72 percent of the small number of SSDI recipients who started a job while on disability got cash under the table, as did 70 percent of the small number of SSI recipients who started a job while on disability.
* 24 percent of the SSDI recipients lack even GEDs, as do 43 percent of the SSI recipients. |
Something else I saw in the news:
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House Republican leaders are to present a bill that would cut the food stamps program by $40 billion over 10 years, a move opposed by Democrats.
Republicans say the program, whose enrollment soared after the 2008-09 recession, is unbearably expensive at $78 billion a year. |
http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/02/19831109-republicans-to-propose-40-billion-cut-over-decade-to-food-stamps-program?lite
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| One in seven Americans received food stamps -- the largest U.S. anti-hunger program – at the latest count, Reuters said. |
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| The House needs to pass a bill to fund food stamp programs after they pulled the provision out of the farm bill in an effort to pass it without Democratic votes. |
Awesome. I hope this passes. The less social welfare in the U.S., the less people who shouldn't be having children will keep having children. That's something I love about Korea. The lack of a social safety net. That helps keep the birthrate low. Here in Korea, single mothers are as rare as unicorns. In the city where I'm from, when black women give birth, 85% of the time they are unmarried. (Nationwide it is about 70%.) Isn't that shocking? That the majority are single. That's a problem.
PS- Before someone says, "Look at teh link- food stamps program enrollment soared after the recession!!!11", the reason for that is greater availability/eligibility (because of the new president Obama). Once available, people were able to take advantage of the system. Resident troll zackback said, "Government handouts to corporations is far more disgusting". Guess what, those handouts are happening on a much smaller scale. So it is less of an issue. (And for the record I am against that as well.) Bucheon Bum said poor people have no health insurance. That is definitely false. The problem is people are using that free insurance to go to doctors to get diagnosed with disabilities so they can get social security money. If a doctor says, "No, you are not disabled", they will keep going to more and more doctors (with the U.S. government picking up the tab) until one will say yes. Disgusting. And they do it for their kids as well. If their kid is diagnosed with a disability and is a minor, they get the money. The American government is being an enabler for bad behavior (poor people perpetuating their genes).
I first read on Dave's (and later heard others agree):
"Rich Korean students are ruder than rich American students. Middle class Korean students are ruder than middle class American students. Poor Korean students are much, much, much more well behaved than poor American students." |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| The recession (late 2007 to mid 2009) is what is keeping people in poverty? |
Yes, the depression destroyed middle-class and lower-than-middle-class wealth and made it harder for many to provide for their families.
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Are you serious? During that time and now, people all over the world were and are desperate to get into the United States. |
That is an incredibly inadequate rebuttal.
| World Traveler wrote: |
Some people earlier in this thread said I don't understand poverty and haven't experienced poverty.
False. I worked with poor people in the United States (both kids and adults). They were some of the laziest people I have ever met. Why were they so lazy? Probably they got it from their parents. Immigrants are the exception though. They came from poorer countries and were poor through no fault of their own. Parents tell their children about the value of hard work, and demonstrate it through their actions. |
You believe people are poor because they are lazy. You know what else children inherit from their parents? Poverty.
You are right about the SSDI program, though. It has been terribly, horribly abused.
Nevertheless, the food stamps program is remarkably efficient and very rarely abused. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Bad behavior is poor people perpetuating their genes? I guess not everyone can be an übermensch NET. Politics, getting the slightly less poor to hate the truly poor and venerate the upper classes that are truly screwing them. Our system redistributes upwards as much as downwards and as many undeserving people are born into affluence as deserving people are born into poverty. I've worked, lived, with some of the truly wealthy, and they can be just as lazy and drug addled, but better drugs, as any of the poor. Btw anctedotes are a tool for those with weak arguments. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Bad behavior is poor people perpetuating their genes? |
Yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8
Have you really worked with the wealthy? The majority of rich people in America are self made (they did not just come from "old money"). Those people are not lazy. They are ambitious (and smarter). There are actually a lot of opportunities to make good money in the U.S. (It is the country people are around the world are desperate to get into.) If you don't believe that (and are American) you are just hurting yourself. Opportunities exist my friend. It is up to you to go out and get them.
| Kuros wrote: |
You believe people are poor because they are lazy. You know what else children inherit from their parents? Poverty.
You are right about the SSDI program, though. It has been terribly, horribly abused.
Nevertheless, the food stamps program is remarkably efficient and very rarely abused. |
Children inherit from their parents values. Are they taught to be victims and dependent on the government or are they taught about education and hard work? (Also, they inherit IQ, which is particially heriditary. Some parents smoke, drink, and do hard drugs while pregant too, which can really screw up the child.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrvnLpLjTuA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGjSq4HqP9Y [4:00-]
Last edited by World Traveler on Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Have you really worked with the wealthy? The majority of rich people in America are self made (they did not just come from "old money"). Those people are not lazy. They are ambitious (and smarter). There are actually a lot of opportunities to make good money in the U.S. (It is the country people are around the world are desperate to get into.) If you don't believe that (and are American) you are just hurting yourself. Opportunities exist my friend. It is up to you to go out and get them. |
You know how I know the wealthy, by growing up with them. They were born rich, and despite how often they screwed up, they stayed rich. Opportunities exist, I was given them, my friends were given them, more or less a birthright. Getting into that school, or getting that job is pretty easy if you know someone who can call someone, or if your dad is already a CEO.
You do know that there is a higher degree of class stratification in America than most other developed countries, right?
"In the 1990s, however, mobility declined
noticeably. About 53 percent of
families that began the decade in the
poorest quintile were still there ten years
later (see lower table), several percentage
points higher than before. Families in the
richest quintile were also more likely to remain
there than previously.
Overall, about 40 percent of families
ended the 1990s where they began, as
compared with 36 and 37 percent in the
1970s and 1980s, respectively. While
some hoped that increased mobility had
offset the increased inequality in the 1980s
and 1990s, these data provide no evidence
of such an offsetting role. Rather, we find
a slight decrease in mobility, which suggests
that the lifetime incomes of rich and
poor families have indeed grown more
unequal."
http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/nerr/rr2002/q4/issues.pdf
BTW, why aren't you back in America getting wealthy already, with all the opportunity and what not? NETs are not really the top of the evolutionary food chain, are you sure you would be spared from any future eugenics scheme? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| You do know that there is a higher degree of class stratification in America than most other developed countries, right? |
It is because poor, incapable, screwed up people are encouraged to reproduce. (Or at least the disincentive is not great enough.) I don't see how I could be more clear with that. You think dysfuctional families are going to rise out of poverty? Not likely. And (sadly) those are the people having the most children.
That explains this:
| Quote: |
About 53 percent of
families that began the decade in the
poorest quintile were still there ten years
later |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| You do know that there is a higher degree of class stratification in America than most other developed countries, right? |
It is because poor, incapable, screwed up people are encouraged to reproduce. (Or at least the disincentive is not great enough.) I don't see how I could be more clear with that. You think dysfuctional families are going to rise out of poverty? Not likely. And (sadly) those are the people having the most children.
That explains this:
| Quote: |
About 53 percent of
families that began the decade in the
poorest quintile were still there ten years
later |
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Except that most countries with much less social stratification, including Nordic countries that have some of the best economies in the world, also have much higher degrees of social spending. That's, um, inconvenient for your world view, eh? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| That's, um, inconvenient for your world view, eh? |
Norway has one tenth the population of South Korea. Not many ethnic minorities either. And it is sitting on a huge bed of oil. So yeah, there are less poor people in Norway. What's your point?
| Leon wrote: |
| BTW, why aren't you back in America getting wealthy already, with all the opportunity and what not? NETs are not really the top of the evolutionary food chain |
I'm actually headed back once my contract is up. The reason I don't leave now is it would be unethical to not complete what I promised to do. (Plus I want to get my airfare and one months salary bonus at the end.) I read this on another site, and it really got under my skin:
| Quote: |
While I think the experiences gained (albeit painfully for many) are worth a measly year of one's life, the OP *does* have a point. It's an opportunity that isn't easily done later in life, and there's value in it; I'd argue that a year is worth it for most people. But the value derived hits diminishing returns after the first 6 months or so.
If you play to go into engineering or CS, you're basically giving up a 90-100K year of income, since you're giving up a solid year of earnings. You're giving up a year of developing retirement, progressing in your career and numerous other costs. If you're going into the higher end of medicine, you're going to be giving up 200-400K. That $10K suddenly isn't very meaningful. Even missing a year in a low-wage job such as teaching will cost you much more than 10K in the long run. In terms of opportunity costs, you're not making money in Korea - you're spending a lot of money to stay here each year.
On the other hand, if you're going to be working retail jobs without benefits at 20-30K for the rest of your life, then I suppose you're not "wasting" much. Financially, staying in Korea is probably a decent option.
I'll also disagree with the statement "It just takes drive and talent. If you don't have it, then go home." The more talent you have, the more staying in Korea each year costs you in terms of opportunity costs. The less ability you have, the less the cost. In fact, it's arguably the best option for those with the least intellectual ability and least economic mobility. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| That's, um, inconvenient for your world view, eh? |
Norway has one tenth the population of South Korea. Not many ethnic minorities either. And it is sitting on a huge bed of oil. So yeah, there are less poor people in Norway. What's your point? |
I said Nordic countries, not Norway, all the Nordic countries together have a roughly equivalent population to Texas. Texas now produces more oil than Norway. Not all of the Nordic countries have much natural resources. Care to guess which has a greater degree of social spending and a greater degree of class mobility? Even if you took away the mexican population from Texas, because I'm sure you were about to bring it up, which is richer and has a higher standard of living? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Check out this picture:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/72467571@N06/7992837610/
The Texan ecomony is equivilant to the Canadian economy. Pretty surprising, right (considering Canada has a larger population and so much land).
Last edited by World Traveler on Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Reagan's lies live on in World Traveler's posts. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Not really considering how much of that land is unusable, Texas has more natural resources, and the size of the populations isn't really that different. What's your point, other than to try to change the topic? |
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