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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Simple question - if this was happening "back home", what would ya do? How is it much different here?
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I feel like a lot of the new teachers that come here have limited work experience in general. They're not used to workplace/office politics, and they're chalking it up to being Korean. Chances are though, near everyone that has extensive work experience in the west has also come across their share of "hurdles" in their working relationships.
One of my friends here recently moved back to Canada to "the corporate life". He's constantly telling me about the office backstabbing (and humping) and such. He's shocked by it. He thought that it was Korea that was messed up (he had been working here mostly since graduation). He just never really had that much work experience back home - but now he's realizing. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| augustine wrote: |
| Of course many Koreans aren't going to acknowledge your presence... this is the HERMIT KINGDOM... it's one of the least trustful societies on the planet... the other half of this country is probably the most propagandized, totalitarian, dictator-worshiping state in the last fifty years. How did that happen there and not here? It could have happened here because Koreans have a certain frame of mind that allows them to be brainwashed more easily than most groups of people. They're isolated and have had a tough past with outside nations. So, obviously, a lot of them don't like us and will pretend like we don't exist in public. That's how they're supposed to react, in general. Mostly because it's a patriarchal society dictated by old men, and even though the women are much, much more open than the men here, they still have to obey oppa when they're in their group, or they'll be ostracized. Most of the men will obviously always hate their women fraternizing with whitey, but some are cool, and I appreciate those guys. However, again, this is the hermit kingdom, the men don't like outsiders and the women often have to go behind their oppa overlords to get what they really want. It's just the way it is, but it's not "just like everywhere else" as certain morons on here often claim. |
So its your claim that back home in an office of 30 people there wouldn't be one "weirdo" who engages in behavior like not saying hi to other office workers who they don't deal with, but just pass?
In the OP, the person was clearly an outlier. The other people at the school were all fine.
What does this have to do with "Oppa Overlords"? Your portrayal of Korean society is a farcical caricature. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Simple question - if this was happening "back home", what would ya do? How is it much different here? |
Fair question. It depends on the size of the company. In a school the teachers usually greet or give each other a nod of acknowledgement. If someone was not responding to my greetings I would probably ask other teachers what the person's problem was. If they did it to everyone then I'd think they were an asshole. If they only ignored me then I would have a problem with it. Is it because I'm gay/straight, white/black, male/female? I would want to know what their problem is. I think most people would.
An acknowledgement can be something as little as a smile, a nod, a grunt even.
If a person is exclusively ignoring you then I can understand why people would be upset about that. I think it all comes down to what my major problem with Korea is: a lack of manners and consideration for other people. |
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augustine
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Location: México
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| augustine wrote: |
| Of course many Koreans aren't going to acknowledge your presence... this is the HERMIT KINGDOM... it's one of the least trustful societies on the planet... the other half of this country is probably the most propagandized, totalitarian, dictator-worshiping state in the last fifty years. How did that happen there and not here? It could have happened here because Koreans have a certain frame of mind that allows them to be brainwashed more easily than most groups of people. They're isolated and have had a tough past with outside nations. So, obviously, a lot of them don't like us and will pretend like we don't exist in public. That's how they're supposed to react, in general. Mostly because it's a patriarchal society dictated by old men, and even though the women are much, much more open than the men here, they still have to obey oppa when they're in their group, or they'll be ostracized. Most of the men will obviously always hate their women fraternizing with whitey, but some are cool, and I appreciate those guys. However, again, this is the hermit kingdom, the men don't like outsiders and the women often have to go behind their oppa overlords to get what they really want. It's just the way it is, but it's not "just like everywhere else" as certain morons on here often claim. |
So its your claim that back home in an office of 30 people there wouldn't be one "weirdo" who engages in behavior like not saying hi to other office workers who they don't deal with, but just pass?
In the OP, the person was clearly an outlier. The other people at the school were all fine.
What does this have to do with "Oppa Overlords"? Your portrayal of Korean society is a farcical caricature. |
Negative.
1) No, I wasn't saying anything like that.
2) You are a farcical caricature and I don't want to converse with you because you offer very little and are extremely out of touch with reality, so please don't respond anymore. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| augustine wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| augustine wrote: |
| Of course many Koreans aren't going to acknowledge your presence... this is the HERMIT KINGDOM... it's one of the least trustful societies on the planet... the other half of this country is probably the most propagandized, totalitarian, dictator-worshiping state in the last fifty years. How did that happen there and not here? It could have happened here because Koreans have a certain frame of mind that allows them to be brainwashed more easily than most groups of people. They're isolated and have had a tough past with outside nations. So, obviously, a lot of them don't like us and will pretend like we don't exist in public. That's how they're supposed to react, in general. Mostly because it's a patriarchal society dictated by old men, and even though the women are much, much more open than the men here, they still have to obey oppa when they're in their group, or they'll be ostracized. Most of the men will obviously always hate their women fraternizing with whitey, but some are cool, and I appreciate those guys. However, again, this is the hermit kingdom, the men don't like outsiders and the women often have to go behind their oppa overlords to get what they really want. It's just the way it is, but it's not "just like everywhere else" as certain morons on here often claim. |
So its your claim that back home in an office of 30 people there wouldn't be one "weirdo" who engages in behavior like not saying hi to other office workers who they don't deal with, but just pass?
In the OP, the person was clearly an outlier. The other people at the school were all fine.
What does this have to do with "Oppa Overlords"? Your portrayal of Korean society is a farcical caricature. |
Negative.
1) No, I wasn't saying anything like that.
2) You are a farcical caricature and I don't want to converse with you because you offer very little and are extremely out of touch with reality, so please don't respond anymore. |
So, then how is what's happening typical behavior for the Hermit Kingdom and its Oppa Overlords? Sounds like behavior that could happen in any office around the world. Get 30 people together in a building and odds are that 1 of them will be a social retard.
How is that point out of touch with reality?
Whether or not I can respond on this thread to other posts is to be determined by the Mods. I believe that if you post something on a thread, anyone should be able to respond as long as they aren't personally attacking you.
Anyways, good day. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| robbie_davies wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
As a side note: the comments made about Korean women being removed from the presence of FTs to keep them pure or safe was one of the most ridiculous things I have had the misfortune of reading on here in years. It would make good comedy if only it was meant as such... |
I am more than happy to put my name and the name of the public school in question. I'll drop you a PM if you fancy it, apart from that final paragraph which is highlighted above - you were pretty spot on with the rest of your post. |
I think you underestimate the lengths people will go to remove any blemish that might exists online about the reputation of Korea. At some point it becomes obvious some people aren't here to present the reality of living here. You could provide video evidence and some people will come up with some far fetched excuse and cling to it until the day they die. |
It seems to be a problem on this board I agree. To deny that adjoshi *beep* envy doesn't exist and that a young female teacher being removed because she is fraternising with the waygook to be absurd, is just someone who is blind to what goes on over there.
I have no problem with people who love the place, I know loads of people who love it there and have great lives but if someone tells me it is crap and they hate it then I am not going to deny that they are wrong. There is a lot wrong with the place and there are plenty of crap (as well as great) Koreans - which - if one ends up being above you in the food chain at work, then life gets hard and the place becomes crap - very understandable.
Also, a lot of people are not really suited to Korea, you need to develop a level of acceptance for nonsense and be able to SNIP - if you can't SNIP then you need to think of another destination. If one does not know what SNIP means then you need to have been on that plane out of Incheon yesterday.  |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| robbie_davies wrote: |
It seems to be a problem on this board I agree. To deny that adjoshi *beep* envy doesn't exist and that a young female teacher being removed because she is fraternising with the waygook to be absurd, is just someone who is blind to what goes on over there.
I have no problem with people who love the place, I know loads of people who love it there and have great lives but if someone tells me it is crap and they hate it then I am not going to deny that they are wrong. There is a lot wrong with the place and there are plenty of crap (as well as great) Koreans - which - if one ends up being above you in the food chain at work, then life gets hard and the place becomes crap - very understandable.
Also, a lot of people are not really suited to Korea, you need to develop a level of acceptance for nonsense and be able to SNIP - if you can't SNIP then you need to think of another destination. If one does not know what SNIP means then you need to have been on that plane out of Incheon yesterday. |
Of course ajosshi *ahem* envy exists. But Yellow Fever Creeper also exists. Both are possible explanations for changes (the girl might be smiling along, but inside is weirded out). I'll agree that some on the apologist side are reluctant to accept that possibility, when it is certainly a common and obvious one if people on the basher side accept that "Guy who stares at chest-level" and unprofessionally hits on every woman in the workplace also exists.
Of course that above description could equally describe a Korean teacher or department head as well.
I personally know NET female teachers who had major issues with Korean coworkers oggling them or being too interested in talking to them. I also know of some Korean female teachers who had issues with NETs constantly flirting with them and not getting the hint and it being a major issue. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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I have no idea what SNIP means.
| Seoulman69 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Simple question - if this was happening "back home", what would ya do? How is it much different here? |
Fair question. It depends on the size of the company. In a school the teachers usually greet or give each other a nod of acknowledgement. If someone was not responding to my greetings I would probably ask other teachers what the person's problem was. If they did it to everyone then I'd think they were an asshole. If they only ignored me then I would have a problem with it. Is it because I'm gay/straight, white/black, male/female? I would want to know what their problem is. I think most people would.
An acknowledgement can be something as little as a smile, a nod, a grunt even.
If a person is exclusively ignoring you then I can understand why people would be upset about that. I think it all comes down to what my major problem with Korea is: a lack of manners and consideration for other people. |
I was with ya until that last sentence. I really don't think it's all that different here than "back home" in many ways. I can see why people would be bothered by some arse at work... but I don't see how it's a symptom of a "lack of manners and consideration in Korea" - as opposed to any place. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
I have no idea what SNIP means.
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Smile---Nod---Ignore---Proceed
Usually applied when given unsolicited, unwanted and unnecessary advice. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I was with ya until that last sentence. I really don't think it's all that different here than "back home" in many ways. I can see why people would be bothered by some arse at work... but I don't see how it's a symptom of a "lack of manners and consideration in Korea" - as opposed to any place. |
Yeah, reading it back the last sentence does seem a tad venomous. Perhaps my idea of the manners back home have become rosier due to my absence. I go back for a couple of months a year but that's not enough to get the whole picture.
I stand by the rest of the post though. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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i have to say, this thread isn't really going anywhere and seems to be taking people a long time to say the same thing over and over.
So, I thought id save folk some time. Now, you can just cut and paste from the one of the three following sentences! And its free of charge!
Koreans are terrible. They are very rude and ignore me because im a foreigner.
Koreans dont ignore you specifically. People everywhere can be rude at work.
You're a (insert insult).
You also have the option of repeatedly cutting and pasting if you would like to keep the thread going another 14 pages.
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
i have to say, this thread isn't really going anywhere and seems to be taking people a long time to say the same thing over and over.
So, I thought id save folk some time. Now, you can just cut and paste from the one of the three following sentences! And its free of charge!
Koreans are terrible. They are very rude and ignore me because im a foreigner.
Koreans dont ignore you specifically. People everywhere can be rude at work.
You're a (insert insult).
You also have the option of repeatedly cutting and pasting if you would like to keep the thread going another 14 pages.
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You're a dork.
+
Koreans dont ignore you specifically. They are very rude and ignore me because im a foreigner.
(because it's all about me, yo) |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:46 am Post subject: |
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This forum really needs a regular nutball who would have sort of completely off the wall explanation or response. Not a moderate along the apologist-basher spectrum, but an anarchist or a monarchist or a cultist.
The closest thing I could think of would be a Zackback post. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
This forum really needs a regular nutball who would have sort of completely off the wall explanation or response. Not a moderate along the apologist-basher spectrum, but an anarchist or a monarchist or a cultist.
The closest thing I could think of would be a Zackback post. |
i save that persona for fb where i can arrange to meet up and fight with gi's. Youd get a ban pretty quick from here if you were anything but leaning slightly off the edge of the fence. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| robbie_davies wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
As a side note: the comments made about Korean women being removed from the presence of FTs to keep them pure or safe was one of the most ridiculous things I have had the misfortune of reading on here in years. It would make good comedy if only it was meant as such... |
I am more than happy to put my name and the name of the public school in question. I'll drop you a PM if you fancy it, apart from that final paragraph which is highlighted above - you were pretty spot on with the rest of your post. |
I think you underestimate the lengths people will go to remove any blemish that might exists online about the reputation of Korea. At some point it becomes obvious some people aren't here to present the reality of living here. You could provide video evidence and some people will come up with some far fetched excuse and cling to it until the day they die. |
No one here does this, not even remotely. You seem to think they do or perhaps you want to think they do because it feeds into your little Daves narrative of apologists.
The reality is not like this but trying to explain it has become useless I fear. the position you described is retarded (much like its opposite of Korea is hell in every way is retarded and not actually real on here).
You want to discuss something (about Korea or anywhere else for that matter) with me then drop the sweeping statements, the absolutes and the anecdotal blown up into artificial generalist conclusions. You are (from what I can read here) intelligent and able to discuss something so do it.
Or stick to using categories if that is your wish. The amusing thing is that by your standard you would probably find me to be a Canada apologist too as I react the same way to sweeping comments made about any group or place.
As for the OP my position is clear (and I share what Captain Corea said later in the thread): What was described is pretty normal workplace interaction where some people simply do not like each other. this is not a Korea thing per se,it is far more a human interaction in a workplace thing. People can be rude to each other, they can be loners, anti-social. It is rude to some but really if you wish to survive in any workplace and thrive, growing a thicker skin and getting a bit of a sense of perspective will help you a lot.
However, feel free to think what you wish.
Cheers and enjoy the rest of your week. |
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