Korean Job Discussion Forums

[dairyairy]

https://www.change.org/petitions/the-department-of-social-protection-via-the-irish-embassy-seoul-korea-examine-and-alter-our-current-pension-agreement-offered-to-us-in-korea

[le-paul]

good luck on that! be nice to see someone get something out of the the whole fiasco.
if/ when it succeeds, maybe we could follow suit

edit - when

[andrewchon]

I ain't signing until U2 pays all their back taxes.

[Stan Rogers]

It'll never happen. Why would Korea want to enter into an agreement they would most likely lose money on?

[aq8knyus]

It is a good idea, if I was Irish I would sign.

I think all the teachers from the E7 countries that dont get their pension back should pool resources and have simultaneously progressing petitions.

Also if a few thousand expat Brits and Irish were to write to their respective representatives/government departments it would let them know their is a problem.

[dairyairy]

[Stan Rogers]

It isn't something that is important to most Irish or Korean people. Governments care about what their tax paying residents want, not what their x pats want. If the numbers of people petitioning were significant enough then I could see some movement on the issue.

I'm not Irish but I'm going to go out on a limb and say most Irish people care about a healthy supply of Samsung phones, LG TVs and Korean cars.

Koreans only care about a healthy supply of Guinness, Guinness and more Guinness.

My guess is that both governments spend most of their time making sure that business as usual continues to be that way. That's why I don't think change is coming anytime soon.

[dairyairy]

[deizio]

Korea and Ireland have a fairly well negotiated and laid out bilateral agreement that covers this kind of thing (there are 9 separate milestones listed in their history of meetings and declarations), and like the agreement with the UK this specifies that the lump sum is not applicable. I don't know the specifics of Ireland's system, but if it's anything like the UK (where the state pension portion can't be unpicked from contributions made for other benefits) then this is probably why there's no lump sum.

If the UK, Ireland etc. would offer Koreans a lump sum repayment of their pension then Korea would sign up. However, the feeling on the UK side is that they don't want to pay back more than would just be applicable to a pension contribution, or come up with a formula to calculate just that amount.

I've seen plenty of these petition ideas over the years, but few if any that show a clear understanding of why the lump sum isn't available. There's generally an assumption that it's simply because no agreement exists, but that's not the case.

There's more, but here's the fun stuff:

④ Korean lump-sum refunds are not granted to Irish nationals based on this Agreement. Lump-sum refunds can be paid to nationals of a third state only in accordance with the reciprocity principle under the National Pension Act.
⑤ There is no lump-sum refund system under the Irish social security, and as such any contribution which a Korean national paid to the Irish social security system will be granted in monthly installments not in a lump-sum.

[dairyairy]

Obviously there would be legal issues to address during negotiations. This petition is to get the ball rolling towards negotiations.

[deizio]

Indeed, I don't mean to be a downer and as a Brit with many years of contributions locked away I'm all in favour. Any of the following outcomes (vaguely from less to more feasible) should do it:

1. Ireland changes its social security system and separates out pension contributions from other social security benefits, then allows foreign workers to reclaim the pension portion.
2. Ireland allows foreign workers to reclaim their entire social security payment
3. Ireland comes up with a formula whereby a foreign worker (or at least those from Korea) can reclaim an approximation of their pension contributions
4. Ireland convinces Korea to give refunds to Irish nationals despite the provisions being asymmetric, possibly by offering something else in return.

I'm not fully aware of the specifics of the various individual agreements that Korea has with other countries. There are several others that allow for refunds beyond the US, Canada and Australia (I seem to remember Austria is one), so these things are not only agreed between countries with massive flows of workers. Some of them might be unbalanced but "close enough" or pushed through using other enticements or rationales.

All the best with it

[KennethQKNU]

As the person who began this campaign, I feel that making comparisons with the UK situation are invalid. Did you know that there are less than 200 Koreans on working holiday visas in Ireland, whereas the number of Irish working in SK is close to 900 and growing at a consistent pace. Three years ago, there was approx 500.

This agreement is outdated, this opinion has been echoed by many people. The Korean Embassy in Ireland is fully supportive of any amendments if mutually beneficial. The Irish government is currently looking at the various options available. I'm not expecting any miracles, but the exposure to this adverse agreement will be the foundation for eventual change however long it takes. Your support would be kindly appreciated. Here's a few more links to read:

http://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130709000565

http://www.worldirish.com/story/51571-guest-post-support-a-campaign-for-irish-workers-in-south-korea

If you have any questions about this or want to provide me with any advice please email me at [email protected] All support is more than welcome

[thegadfly]

[KennethQKNU]

If the Irish government decides to refund pension funds to the small number of Koreans working in Ireland, this in turn will lead to the same effect here. The Korean Embassy basically realize that this will be more beneficial to the Irish community as it is much larger. They have their own people in kind obviously, but understand that if a decision is made by the Irish government to alter this, they will fully support it. If a decision was made by the Korean government to alter the agreement, there has been no mention as of yet that the Irish government would support this. I do understand that it is the Irish Government that needs to be pressurized into accepting the fact that a change needs to be made. I'm trying every way possible to convince them of this and know that eventually, someday, this WILL happen.