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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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 Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Mix1
1. You are backing away from it. You said never, then changed it to some. That's not the same thing. Not even close. I have no idea if ppl are spanking less now... but I didn't make the claim, did I?
| Mix1 wrote: |
| The youngest kids have NEVER been spanked or harshly punished and have no fear of adults or consequences. |
2. See, here's we've got what's part of the problem here. You've got some people who are saying there is room for a structured CP in the system, and then you've got others who enjoy tossing out arguments for smacking kids (or even their parents). Should we all go around smacking people who say things we don't like?
3. No, I'm confortable with a school system that does not beat my child. How many times do I have to type that in this thread?
4. So you have NO experience parenting, yet seek to give advice on the subject. Got it. 
5. We agree that the students should not run the schools. I don't think anyone on here is proposing that.
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I'm over the numbers game, but...
1. I am not backing away from the general idea that kids are spanked less than before and have to deal with harsh punishment less as well. I already said I amended the word NEVER in the last post: nice detective work, but it's a bit slow. If you feel the need to earn more brownie points by continually parsing semantics and re-quoting me, go right ahead.
2. That one's all over the map, but I'll say this: the possibility of getting "smacked" is a major deterrent. It's one reason many generally don't mouth off in the first place. Now, if you take that possibility completely off the table, many people (kids included) are naturally going to be a lot more disrespectful. SHOULD people go around smacking each other if they don't like what is said? Ideally, no. Hopefully, you could instill an inherent respect in them based on consideration for others, but that wouldn't work for everyone.
As for the punching the parents thing, that was mostly in jest and not very realistic, but it seems you didn't get that. The main point was that the parents sometimes come up short and share some blame here too.
3. ---
4. Back to this. Maybe you feel empowered because you had a kid, but it didn't automatically make you smarter than non-parents or give you more rights than others. Again, plenty of crappy parents out there.
If some guy spoils his kid rotten and lets her scream at people passing by, or another locks his kid in a cage and feeds her three twinkies a day, do you think they could claim they're experts on anything just because they are "parents"? "Shaddup, you know nothing. I'm a parent!" No. Now probably you wouldn't do that, but the point is that a parent can easily be wrong.
I don't think I offered any specific "advice" so that seems a straw man to me, but even if I did (and maybe you'll find something to twist around), just being a parent does not automatically garner respect, seeing as how anyone with a reproductive system can do it.
Being a GOOD parent, that's a different matter. And by good, I mean someone who can, at minimum, control their own kids and instill some discipline and respect into them so that they aren't a burden or harm to others, etc.
As for specifics, I don't care how they do it, whether that's a lecture on feelings, or a quick spanking with a warning, I don't really care, but either way I'm entitled to an opinion, especially since the bad decisions of parents affect society at large.
If parents suddenly start repeatedly churning out disrespectful brats who don't adhere to rules or respect authority, then they need to be taken to task on that to some degree, because teachers can't do everything, especially in today's regulatory environment.
5. --- |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:43 am Post subject: |
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You call it semantics, I call it holding you accountable for your claims. You've claimed that Korean kids NEVER get hit nowadays. You've also said that parents are mostly negligent - these are YOUR words! And your advice on it all? CP - it puts a "solid line in the sand".
Dodge and weave all ya like - the quote and words are there.
| Mix1 wrote: |
The youngest kids have NEVER been spanked or harshly punished and have no fear of adults or consequences. I've heard plenty of Korean teachers complaining about the kids now and how they have zero discipline and zero respect or fear of adults and they just mouth off all the time, and how that never used to happen, and if it did, they'd have been smacked or told off by the adults.
C.P. may not be perfect, but it puts a solid line in the sand about the rules, and as to who is in charge, and it's CERTAINLY better than letting the inmates run the asylum, which is what is happening now.
Yes, we COULD take it out of schools and try to let the parents handle the discipline, but they are mostly negligent too. Most parents here seem to not make the kids do ANYTHING against their wills, including basic household chores, and they are also failing to teach basic manners of conduct. It is similar "back home" with some slight differences.
So we can't really count on the parents, and the teachers now can't do anything either, so it's a double whammy. You have a whole generation of untouchable, princes and princesses running around who have little idea what respect or discipline is, and today's 'modern' parents unleashed them. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
| I was raised in the north of England, 30 plus years ago, by an ex pit worker whos job was 'debt collection'. I have had my fair share of beatings from my parents, to the point where i didnt think anything of violence and was almost incarcerated more than once for almost killing people (once for smashing someones head off a wall and another time for for punching someone in the throat, repeatedly). |
You're describing violence, not discipline as embodied by corporal punishment.
The two are not the same and as I experienced them, not even similar.
When I recieved the cane at school, or was either spanked or hit by my parents as a child/ teenager, there was no malice in it. They meant me no harm. Quite the opposite, I had forced them into the last resort in their effort to correct me- for my own good. In the case of my parents, dicipline was dealt out of love. They didn't want me to take drugs or whatever other dumb things I tried as a teenager. I pushed them to their limits and forced them to knock sense into me. Ididn't respect them less, I respected them more.
Parts of northern England hardly represents a caring community with moral values. Its a grim existence- particularly on the council estates- and the culture is extremely negative. Violence is celebrated, boys are raised to be "hard" and that is their only preoccupation. Apart from spending all their wages on alcahol and trying to shag their neighbours wife. Their lives are empty, they have nothing but watching football or coronation street and signing on the dole. Its pitiful.
The sort of random street violence that grows in that deprived environment is entirely different from the discipline I described earlier. It is simply bored and mindless people out to bully, victimise or commit crime.
| Quote: |
| I came from a generation of teachers, peers and parents that used physical force as a way of articulating just about everything. |
That is strange because I also spent a few years at school in the north of england and my teachers were rarely physically violent. If they were they would have gotten sued or jailed.
If your parents hit you for trivial reasons, when drunk or simply used you as a punch bag, then that is abuse. That comes under the category of violence, it is not discipline. It doesn't have your wellbeing as its aim. See what I'm saying? |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:11 am Post subject: |
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cp was made illegal in 1987 and later for private schools. Im 40.
you seem like a man of the world with your almost 'autistic like' photographic, social observations, I'm sure you can figure out why i got cp and you didnt?
yes, was for your own good, haha, i can almost hear you saying that to your gf as you spank her for talking back to you 
"Its -spank-for-spank-your-spank-own-good! Its for your own GOOD! SPANK"
(incidentally, im using your term 'spank' for hitting, i find the term a little risqué personally). |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
| I'm sure you can figure out why i got cp and you didnt? |
Was it because of your mental deficiency?
Julius, your first post of this personal insult was removed. Yet, you post it again. That is two direct violations of the TOS. Continued posting of this nature will result in actions taken against your posting privileges on Dave's ESL Cafe.
Koharski |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| le-paul wrote: |
| I'm sure you can figure out why i got cp and you didnt? |
Was it because of your mental deficiency?
Julius, your first post of this personal insult was removed. Yet, you post it again. That is two direct violations of the TOS. Continued posting of this nature will result in actions taken against your posting privileges on Dave's ESL Cafe.
Koharski |
Somebody needs a time-out.  |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
You call it semantics, I call it holding you accountable for your claims. You've claimed that Korean kids NEVER get hit nowadays. You've also said that parents are mostly negligent - these are YOUR words! And your advice on it all? CP - it puts a "solid line in the sand".
Dodge and weave all ya like - the quote and words are there.
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 Wow...
You're really struggling if you have to re-quote the same old quote TWICE, even after I told you TWICE that I agree the word "never" was too absolute and amended the statement. I owned up to the statement (obviously impossible to prove they are never spanked anymore), but still explained I stand by the same general sentiment that they are spanked less. But here you are still parsing the same semantics and chasing yesterday's news...
Then, you try to condense everything I said into a random chosen quote about C.P. putting a "solid line in the sand" ... which of course it does. Seems like you're just hammering at random nails and parsing language at this point at this point. Got it. Let's agree to disagree on this then. |
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