|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
|
 Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:35 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
@alongtheway
If you were to apply the principles of Occam's razor to this scenario then surely the simplest answer to your questions would be that the Professor was lying. He did this in order to try and scare and intimidate the students, which would be in line with his behaviour in the video.
That is supported by the fact that they have the degree, i'll say it again, they have the degree. All your bizzare assertions run counter to the reality that the university has awarded them the degree. We are also talking about students who have published several academic papers, their own book and obviously countless papers during their degree.
What I find most interesting about your invented scenario is that you seem to find it inconceivable that the professor was lying. This despite his aggressive intimidation and dehumanizing language used in the video. Also in the video he says he can cancel the degree, when in reality he couldn't and the students got the degree.
In the video we have the professor bragging that he has the power to cancel their degree. Yet we know they got the degree. We have a bare faced lie on film and you a) refuse to see it b) are obsessed with the students.
Finally your continual refusal to condemn the behaviour in the video shows your true colours. Even if your invented scenario was true, how does that justify his behaviour? Nothing justifies the way he acted, until you accept that I dont see how you can be taken seriously. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
|
| Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| If you were to apply the principles of Occam's razor to this scenario then surely the simplest answer to your questions would be that the Professor was lying. |
You're assuming he was lying, we have proof the girls lied. If the professor was just making this all up, the girls would have no reason to repeatedly lie as they did. Unfortunately your theory fails the smell test. It doesn't account for why the girls lied, nor does it account for how the girls apparently know what paper it is that he's talking about.
| Quote: |
| All your bizzare assertions run counter to the reality that the university has awarded them the degree. We are also talking about students who have published several academic papers, their own book and obviously countless papers during their degree. |
They don't at all, and your assertion is patently false. As i stated, neither side wants to come clean about what this paper really is. As such the girls end up with their degree. That is completely inline with what I said. The professor doesn't want to admit he marked them down as completed when they hadn't handed in the work and the girls don't want to admit that they didn't hand in the agreed upon work after conning the professor into putting them down as having completed the class.
| Quote: |
| What I find most interesting about your invented scenario is that you seem to find it inconceivable that the professor was lying. |
You keep trying to assign it to me, but I was not the first to come up with this scenario and plenty of people have independently come up with it numerous places, including this thread. I've also already noted that the professor was obviously lying about the paper he was there to go. Not to the girls, but to the Herald. Please go back and check, I've written it several times, yet another lie by someone on the side of the girls. It's almost a pandemic at this point.
| Quote: |
In the video we have the professor bragging that he has the power to cancel their degree. |
Universities have cancelled degrees before when fraud is found. If the university discovers this agreement was in place they may in fact go ahead and cancel their degree until such a time that they complete the required work. In essence the professor would have the power to cancel their degree, the reason would look bad for him, but he could do it.
| Quote: |
| We have a bare faced lie on film |
Yes, we do. 2 by the girls, which you 1)refuse to see and 2)pretend that it has no bearing on this entire situation at all.
You seem to think that people can act like children, jerk others around, lie to them, play games with them, then expect that the victim might not get a little upset, especially when communicating in a language he struggles with.
The blind obsession is quite clear here. I've freely admitted the professor's faults several times over. When are you going to face up to the fact that these two were basically trying to play the professor and got caught doing so? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
|
| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| alongway wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Nice attitude. You're the one striking out here. Watercooler talk? Right. Their predictions of his behavior don't hold much more weight than anyone else. Any evidence that he has ever done the same with Koreans, including calling them animals? If not, strike one. |
Actually it was a discussion of language and that coming from Korean, this kind of language is used as a common insult in Korean in this situation. So there is zero evidence that he treated them any different than he would have treated a Korean. The burden of proof would be on you there, making the accusation.
| Quote: |
| Look at the video again. He almost certainly notices it, but even if he doesn't, so what? He could barely hold himself back, camera or not. Strike two. |
I've watched it several times. He may look in the direction of the phone, but with her holding it at waist height like that, he may have no idea that she is actually recording since they started the video before they left the house. Lots of people stand around holding their phone. It's not like she's got a TV camera shoved in his face.
| Quote: |
As far as racist language, you do know what "borderline" means, right? |
Yes, it's a term used by people trying to make something sound like something it really isn't while trying to be non-committal about the word so they can deny that they really labelled someone. Something is either racist or not. Provide some actual evidence that he called them animals because they were Indonesian and not liars, or sit down. There has been lots of time since the video has come out for someone to do that, but to date not a single person has been able to provide a single shred of evidence beyond their own wishing and hoping that what he said was racist. |
A lot of grasping at straws here by you, and a lot of effort and time put into defending the scumbag. Friend of yours maybe? Or maybe you'd act that way too and just want to pre-empt any criticism? Anyway, pretty sad. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Panda wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
She also claims that she doesn't know why the professor would keep their certificates...but in the video she seems to know exactly what he is talking about when he mentions a paper that they haven't finished/turned in. |
In Korea, most graduate students get their master degree without publishing any paper. The qualification standards can vary between departments/universities, but as long as you meet the least requirement, your school will give you a certificate unless your professor decides not to let you go.
I won't be surprised if the girls can't finish any paper, considering their professor can barely speak a full sentence in English. I also believe (from my own experience), a professor can hold your paper as long as he wants.
You need your professor's permission to submit your paper, my professor held my first paper for 5 years, and I finally decided to submit it without his full permission, which means I informed him I was going to submit my papers and I submitted the paper before he finally said yes, last year, I published 4 articles. By this means, I am a liar too, but no one should wait to get their own life manipulated like that.
In the end, any bullying is disgusting. A professor should understand calling the police is a stupid way to try to threat their students. |
First of all your situation has nothing to do with this situation. The professor is NOT holding any paper...he is asking the students about a paper they did not complete/hand in.
Yes bullying is disgusting. But it's not like he lost his temper for no reason..that's generally what happens when you lie to people and steal property. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I say sack the prof. (due to lack of English proficiency and professionalism) and have the girl redo the course (though the uni may also choose to dispel the student from this uni due to the apparent lying on her part). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
|
| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Yes bullying is disgusting. But it's not like he lost his temper for no reason..that's generally what happens when you lie to people and steal property. |
No. In an academic setting, that is NOT "generally" what happens, or what should happen.
If the girls are guilty of anything, the school will be on his side and he can go through the proper channels to get whatever recourse he needs to have happen.
Interesting how the apologetics extend into physically bullying women. Maybe the prof should be applauded for his restraint as well. As least he didn't hit her. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130717000586
| Quote: |
A Korean professor captured on video berating two Indonesian exchange students and calling one a “low animal” and “not human” has been reprimanded by his university.
The disciplinary committee of Gyeongsang National University ruled on June 26 that Bae Myung-whan, a mechanical engineering professor at the university in Jinju, South Gyeongsang Province, had “undermined GNU’s reputation and demeaned himself as a professor” in his confrontation with Elvira Fidelia Tanjung and Merisha Hastarina.
Lee Jae-yun, a staff member at the university’s graduate office, told The Korea Herald that the reprimand included the withholding of six months of allowances amounting to over 9 million won.
The video of the incident had been uploaded by Tanjung in April on The Indonesian Students Association’s YouTube channel.
The committee, however, ruled Bae innocent of claims by Tanjung that he had forced the students to credit his son, a student of the same subject at Pusan National University, for research on one of their papers despite not being involved.
“Our committee concluded that it cannot be judged (that) Mr. Bae Jae-ok, Prof. Bae’s son, was falsely listed as a co-author of the paper. This is also because Prof. Bae, a corresponding author to the paper, recognized that his son’s research data, in part, obviously contributed to the research to some extent,” a statement from the university said.
The committee also found that while the students had completed their course and legitimately earned their master’s degrees, they had failed to submit the minimum number of research papers required by the BK21 program that had paid part of their tuition.
Bae is also the head of the government-supported project that aims to develop outstanding graduates in various fields.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dairyairy wrote: |
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130717000586
| Quote: |
A Korean professor captured on video berating two Indonesian exchange students and calling one a “low animal” and “not human” has been reprimanded by his university.
The disciplinary committee of Gyeongsang National University ruled on June 26 that Bae Myung-whan, a mechanical engineering professor at the university in Jinju, South Gyeongsang Province, had “undermined GNU’s reputation and demeaned himself as a professor” in his confrontation with Elvira Fidelia Tanjung and Merisha Hastarina.
Lee Jae-yun, a staff member at the university’s graduate office, told The Korea Herald that the reprimand included the withholding of six months of allowances amounting to over 9 million won.
The video of the incident had been uploaded by Tanjung in April on The Indonesian Students Association’s YouTube channel.
The committee, however, ruled Bae innocent of claims by Tanjung that he had forced the students to credit his son, a student of the same subject at Pusan National University, for research on one of their papers despite not being involved.
“Our committee concluded that it cannot be judged (that) Mr. Bae Jae-ok, Prof. Bae’s son, was falsely listed as a co-author of the paper. This is also because Prof. Bae, a corresponding author to the paper, recognized that his son’s research data, in part, obviously contributed to the research to some extent,” a statement from the university said.
The committee also found that while the students had completed their course and legitimately earned their master’s degrees, they had failed to submit the minimum number of research papers required by the BK21 program that had paid part of their tuition.
Bae is also the head of the government-supported project that aims to develop outstanding graduates in various fields.
|
|
In other words, the girls are confirmed liars, and the only thing the professor was guilty of was getting worked up in a language he wasn't fluent in..
and he's the one who gets the fine?
How did they "legitimately" get their degree without completing the proper amount of papers? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| They completed the school's requirements for the degree. What they evidently didn't do is complete the requirements for the outfit that paid for their tuition. The school didn't pay the tuition, they just got the tuition. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CentralCali wrote: |
| They completed the school's requirements for the degree. What they evidently didn't do is complete the requirements for the outfit that paid for their tuition. The school didn't pay the tuition, they just got the tuition. |
So then it's pretty much guaranteed they committed fraud, and people defended these two? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not fraud. Failure to complete an agreed act or service. The outfit that provided the funds would have a cause of action against them, but as they did meet the university's requirements for graduation, the university cannot withhold the diploma. They did complete some part of the agreed act or service. They just didn't complete all of them. Fraud would be if they had no intention of performing the agreed actions in the first place.
If the funding company were to take them to court or arbitration, my guess is that the court or arbiter would direct that the students complete the research papers by some date they and the funder agree to. Of course, it might be a bit difficult for them to do that, but that'll be the next issue.
One thing I noticed is that bit about the angry' prof's son not being falsely listed as an author because his data was used. What kind of resoning is that? I guess the new list of references in Korea is now a list of authors. I'm hoping that there was some miscommunication about that finding. Heck, I'm hoping I misunderstood it.
Last edited by CentralCali on Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Not fraud. Failure to perform an agreed act or service. |
They took money and agreed to a set of conditions. They failed to do that, and did that to benefit themselves. They further lied to the professor, and the public.
| Quote: |
| In criminal law, fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; |
Sounds like fraud to me. They deceived the professor, the program, and the public all to get themselves some tuition money. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| alongway wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Not fraud. Failure to perform an agreed act or service. |
They took money and agreed to a set of conditions. They failed to do that, and did that to benefit themselves. They further lied to the professor, and the public.
| Quote: |
| In criminal law, fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; |
Sounds like fraud to me. They deceived the professor, the program, and the public all to get themselves some tuition money. |
Except they didn't though did they.
They earned their degree fair and square.
As for the paper, those girls should be getting the value of the entire scholarship as compensation for having to put up with a racist professor. Just because you give someone a scholarship doesn't mean you can treat them in that manner.
In the end the professor is shamed and set to lose out on a tidy sum. Happy days. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| aq8knyus wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Not fraud. Failure to perform an agreed act or service. |
They took money and agreed to a set of conditions. They failed to do that, and did that to benefit themselves. They further lied to the professor, and the public.
| Quote: |
| In criminal law, fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; |
Sounds like fraud to me. They deceived the professor, the program, and the public all to get themselves some tuition money. |
Except they didn't though did they.
They earned their degree fair and square.
As for the paper, those girls should be getting the value of the entire scholarship as compensation for having to put up with a racist professor. Just because you give someone a scholarship doesn't mean you can treat them in that manner.
In the end the professor is shamed and set to lose out on a tidy sum. Happy days. |
It just stated they did. They made an agreement with a scholarship program to get money for their tuition. They failed to meet that agreement.
They lied to the professor about it, claiming they'd submit the papers which they never did. They lied to the school when they ran off with their diploma, they lied to the news paper, and the public when they claimed not to know why the professor would even want to talk to them. They can't stop lying. Now we have the proof of it, and you still trip all over yourself trying to defend these two.
The white knighting in this thread is off the charts.
They may have earned their degree, but they committed fraud to obtain the money to pay for it. There is no evidence the professor was racist at any point, he may have been rude, but as was often pointed out people would have expected that he would have used that same language with Korean students as well, however it's hard to take anything at face value said by someone who is obviously struggling so much in a language.
The university has confirmed the girls are lying. The only wrong doing the university has pinned on the professor is him getting upset when having to converse in a difficult language with confirmed and proven liars. A situation which was a complete and utter wind-up from the beginning, and which anyone who wasn't looking for an excuse could see plain as day.
The only thing I see is two girls who obtained their credentials via fraud and a guy who was frustrated and angry after their continued and repetitive lying.
It's the university who should be ashamed of itself. They should cancel their degrees on ethical violations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| alongway wrote: |
| aq8knyus wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Not fraud. Failure to perform an agreed act or service. |
They took money and agreed to a set of conditions. They failed to do that, and did that to benefit themselves. They further lied to the professor, and the public.
| Quote: |
| In criminal law, fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; |
Sounds like fraud to me. They deceived the professor, the program, and the public all to get themselves some tuition money. |
Except they didn't though did they.
They earned their degree fair and square.
As for the paper, those girls should be getting the value of the entire scholarship as compensation for having to put up with a racist professor. Just because you give someone a scholarship doesn't mean you can treat them in that manner.
In the end the professor is shamed and set to lose out on a tidy sum. Happy days. |
It just stated they did. They made an agreement with a scholarship program to get money for their tuition. They failed to meet that agreement.
They lied to the professor about it, claiming they'd submit the papers which they never did. They lied to the school when they ran off with their diploma, they lied to the news paper, and the public when they claimed not to know why the professor would even want to talk to them. They can't stop lying. Now we have the proof of it, and you still trip all over yourself trying to defend these two.
The white knighting in this thread is off the charts.
They may have earned their degree, but they committed fraud to obtain the money to pay for it. There is no evidence the professor was racist at any point, he may have been rude, but as was often pointed out people would have expected that he would have used that same language with Korean students as well, however it's hard to take anything at face value said by someone who is obviously struggling so much in a language.
The university has confirmed the girls are lying. The only wrong doing the university has pinned on the professor is him getting upset when having to converse in a difficult language with confirmed and proven liars. A situation which was a complete and utter wind-up from the beginning, and which anyone who wasn't looking for an excuse could see plain as day.
The only thing I see is two girls who obtained their credentials via fraud and a guy who was frustrated and angry after their continued and repetitive lying.
It's the university who should be ashamed of itself. They should cancel their degrees on ethical violations. |
How many more times does this need to be stated, this isnt't about the degree. Time and time again it has been stated that they have legitimately earned their degrees.
The issue is a paper relating to one scholarship fund that paid a portion of their fees. Not all, just a portion.
The professor has been described as having demeaned himself and lost 9 million in allowances.
Let this be the end of your continuing victim blaming. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
