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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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My first degree, a major in philosophy and a minor in religion, will always top these lists, because these lists are always compiled by people who believe universities should act as trade schools. If I believed similarly, would I have followed the same path? Likely not. But that's not what I was after. I wanted an education, not a trade, and I would like to believe that I received a damned fine one.
My original plan after graduation was to travel to East Asia to study Buddhism firsthand while teaching English, go back to school to pursue graduate studies in the subject, and eventually become a professor. Unfortunately, I let the Korean work culture beat that desire out of me, so when I did finally head back home, I went back to school for another undergrad degree, this time in biology (one year left!). My new plan is to take this degree to either vet school (my first choice) or med school.
If I could go back in time, would I go straight for vet school? Hell no. I love what I've learned, both specifically in religion and more broadly in the critical thinking skills that philosophy provides. I may have chosen something other than film and advanced film as a couple of my electives, sure, but that's about it. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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My bachelor's was in paralegal studies, which supposedly was a good field to get into (and I had a 4.0 GPA) but I had trouble finding paralegal work - my Careerbuilder ad mainly attracted recruiters from Korea looking for anyone with a bachelor's degree.
Upon return to the US, I got a Master's in Bilingual, ESL & Multicultural Education, which I thought would be very useful - now I'm trying to get a license to teach math (at age 64...) |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
My bachelor's was in paralegal studies, which supposedly was a good field to get into (and I had a 4.0 GPA) but I had trouble finding paralegal work - my Careerbuilder ad mainly attracted recruiters from Korea looking for anyone with a bachelor's degree.
Upon return to the US, I got a Master's in Bilingual, ESL & Multicultural Education, which I thought would be very useful - now I'm trying to get a license to teach math (at age 64...) |
Sounds a good masters that does, I bet it was a lot more interesting than my MA TESOL. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it's already outdated - it should be "Multi-lingual..." |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| My first degree, a major in philosophy and a minor in religion, will always top these lists, because these lists are always compiled by people who believe universities should act as trade schools. |
Exactly. Usefulness is measured by employment raw income and unemployment specific to the field. As if income were everything and as if a major should confine one to a specific field. |
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salutbonjour
Joined: 22 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| My first degree, a major in philosophy and a minor in religion, will always top these lists, because these lists are always compiled by people who believe universities should act as trade schools. If I believed similarly, would I have followed the same path? Likely not. But that's not what I was after. I wanted an education, not a trade, and I would like to believe that I received a damned fine one. |
Universities are largely expensive trade schools. They don't teach anything that couldn't be learned by oneself, but simply provide a structure for this learning and mainly a diploma which shows you have learned a certain set of things related to a specific field.
I think people should not confuse hobby with career, but that's difficult at 18-20 years old. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| salutbonjour wrote: |
| Universities are largely expensive trade schools. |
They shouldn't be. They should be crafting better citizens, not simply skilled laborers. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| salutbonjour wrote: |
| Universities are largely expensive trade schools. |
They shouldn't be. They should be crafting better citizens, not simply skilled laborers. |
Don't be silly, how is that going to increase corporate profits? No, we clearly need more and cheaper state-funded STEM graduates, not better citizens! |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Its FUBAR.
Real Unemployment Rate
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| In June 2013, the number of Real Unemployed Persons increased by 757,000 to 22.6 million and the Real Unemployment Rate increased by 0.4% to 14.3%, reflecting large increases in the number of "marginally attached" and "part-time-of-necessity" workers. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Screwed up beyond all recognition for the rest of eternity? Please. Some countries (Zimbabwe, Palestinian territories, etc.) have an 80% unemployment rate. Those countries are FUBAR. Only a minority of people in the United States are unemployed (and some stay that way because they would rather get free money and benefits for not working than have them taken away for working). Are you in the upper 85% of American society? Or the bottom 15%? Ask yourself that question. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Screwed up beyond all recognition for the rest of eternity? Please. |
I also find your strawman ridiculous.
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| Only a minority of people in the United States are unemployed (and some stay that way because they would rather get free money and benefits for not working than have them taken away for working). |
The latter justification is just what some people tell themselves to stay stupid at night.
Unemployment benefits do not keep people from taking jobs.
Extended Unemployment Benefits Don't Discourage Job Seeking: Study
The long-term unemployed have difficulty finding jobs because of discrimination against them.
Discrimination against the long-term unemployed |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| WT is an illustration of how the GOP wins votes: a mix of substantial ignorance with a little bit of knowledge thrown in. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| salutbonjour wrote: |
| Universities are largely expensive trade schools. |
They shouldn't be. They should be crafting better citizens, not simply skilled laborers. |
If they are government subsidized they should benefit society. Benefiting by increasing labor productivity is one way. Some might argue that an arts degree benefits society too, and it could if the holder did art or produced public works. But I'd guess most liberal arts majors don't produce work for society and just have the knowledge in their head - I don't see that benefiting society (sorry).
On the flip side, I don't see lawyers as much benefit to society, although they get personal benefits from the degree from higher incomes. Not sure that education should be subsidized by the public. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| salutbonjour wrote: |
Universities are largely expensive trade schools. They don't teach anything that couldn't be learned by oneself, but simply provide a structure for this learning and mainly a diploma which shows you have learned a certain set of things related to a specific field.
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I don't think I agree with that. Professors are important because of the expertise they have and the research they do. They are needed to provide a good overview and real world view of the topics. The student needs to understand the flow of things in the subject and how things work. That way a student doesn't go around chasing Holy Grails and generally not knowing the forest for the trees. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| salutbonjour wrote: |
| Universities are largely expensive trade schools. |
They shouldn't be. They should be crafting better citizens, not simply skilled laborers. |
If they are government subsidized they should benefit society. Benefiting by increasing labor productivity is one way. Some might argue that an arts degree benefits society too, and it could if the holder did art or produced public works. But I'd guess most liberal arts majors don't produce work for society and just have the knowledge in their head - I don't see that benefiting society (sorry). |
You don't see the benefit because you are merely a consumer, and thus only things which you can consume -- tangible goods and services -- seem good to you. This is a major source of dysfunction in modern America, because in reality, the wise and knowledgeable citizen is a better citizen, and better citizens make for a better society through their participation in it.
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| On the flip side, I don't see lawyers as much benefit to society, although they get personal benefits from the degree from higher incomes. Not sure that education should be subsidized by the public. |
How, exactly, do you intend to pursue justice absent those who are trained to try cases in court? If criminal and civil justice matter to the well being of a society -- and they do -- then those trained in law obviously benefit society.
I would say your "rebuttal" has made geldedgoat's case for him. |
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